Ankh-Morpork Guard
First Post
Haven't seen this thread yet, so I get to start it! Yay! 
-
NOW LIVE! Into the Woods--new character species, eerie monsters, and haunting villains to populate the woodlands of your D&D games.
Rate Batman Begins
- Thread starter Ankh-Morpork Guard
- Start date
Mouseferatu
Hero
Voted for the first "9," assuming you meant it to be "8." 
Ankh-Morpork Guard
First Post
8...9...same thing, right?Mouseferatu said:Voted for the first "9," assuming you meant it to be "8."
Captain Tagon
First Post
Voted for the second 9. Probably my favorite film I've seen this year.
orbitalfreak
Explorer
Gave it a 10, myself. Great movie, great visuals. The origins tale was really well done. Christian Bale is Batman. I hadn't seen any of his stuff before, somehow, so I was basically just hoping he didn't suck. He nailed the role, with the look, the acting, the mannerisms.
Not only was it a Wayne/Batman origins story, but it sets the stage for the super-villians of Gotham in a believeable way. I hope this becomes an X-Men/Spiderman type franchise with a lot of sequels, so long as they don't go campy like the original string of Batman movies.
Not only was it a Wayne/Batman origins story, but it sets the stage for the super-villians of Gotham in a believeable way. I hope this becomes an X-Men/Spiderman type franchise with a lot of sequels, so long as they don't go campy like the original string of Batman movies.
Mouseferatu
Hero
orbitalfreak said:
Rent Equilibrium. Seriously. Right now. It's hard to find in most video stores, but it's available on Netflix. Heck, I'd almost recommend buying it sight unseen, I thought it was that good.
It's the movie that convinced me they'd chosen right when they first cast Bale.
stevelabny
Explorer
i am now thoroughly convinced i live on a different planet than everyone else.
this movie might have been worse than revenge of the sith. or maybe i'm just being hard on it because its fresher in my mind. so i gave it the same 4 i gave sith.
there was ZERO applause in my theatre, so even if some others looked at me funny for killing it on the way out the door, they couldnt have enjoyed it very much.
with all the little things wrong, and a handful of big things wrong too, the mostly cool Scarecrow wasn't enough to make me enjoy the whole package.
Oh well.
I wonder if War of the Worlds and Fantastic Four will keep up the "it only gets worse" trend.
this movie might have been worse than revenge of the sith. or maybe i'm just being hard on it because its fresher in my mind. so i gave it the same 4 i gave sith.
there was ZERO applause in my theatre, so even if some others looked at me funny for killing it on the way out the door, they couldnt have enjoyed it very much.
with all the little things wrong, and a handful of big things wrong too, the mostly cool Scarecrow wasn't enough to make me enjoy the whole package.
Oh well.
I wonder if War of the Worlds and Fantastic Four will keep up the "it only gets worse" trend.
I liked it, and I don't really care for the Batman character. I think its head and shoulders above any of the other Batman films. Fantastic cast throughout!
Bale is a great actor. Someone suggested Equilibrium, but I would suggest American Psycho, The Machinist, and All the Little Animals as well.
Bale is a great actor. Someone suggested Equilibrium, but I would suggest American Psycho, The Machinist, and All the Little Animals as well.
I really liked it. Best Batman movie yet. Closest to the comic books, IMO. I do have one logic question though:
Ok, we see Katie Holmes' character driving her own car, except in the scene where she gets attacked, she is on the train. How come she is not driving? What happened to her car?
Batman Begins Review:
Comic books often get a bad rap. Since their inception in the late 1930s, comics have been written primarily for children and younger adults. Even the name "comic book" suggests something light hearted in Western culture, something not worthy of serious consideration (despite the fact that from a literary perspective, "comic" means a whole lot more). This attitude towards comics would persist until for decades, resulting in the dumbing down of the genre in the 50s (after WWII).
Perhaps the greatest culprit in degenerating the quality of comics as a genre occured in the late 1960s with Batman. This show single-handedly shattered any concept of involved, sophisticated storytelling for years and solidified in many people's minds the idea that comics were not to be taken seriously, were not to draw on real world inspirations, were not for anything but the most myopic of children.
The Batman character has probably suffered from this attitude more than any other superhero. Superman, being an affable, big brother figure empowered by the sun, can get away with light-heartedness and simplisity. Spiderman, essentially a variation on the whole "jokester" hero like Bugs Bunny or Briar Rabbit, can get away with it. Even a character as violent as Captain America can get away with it as he personifies, at his base level, a simplistic view of the American Dream and patriotism. However, The Batman -- the second great superhero -- was born in darkness and in violence. At his base, the character is a depressing vision of what a hero is because he's driven entirely and totally by revenge, not by some altruistic goal (this would be added, necessarily, later). Yet and still, camp and silliness and the attitude that children need to be faced with empty foolishness have often derailed the integrity of this and other more complex characters. This has especially been the case in movies.
When Warner Bros. released Batman in 1989, it was hailed as an achievement... and in a sense it was. By far it was the most sophisticated screen (big or little) rendition of the character at the time, it came the closest to capturing the nature of the character. Here, Batman was dark and mysterious. He didn't talk much, didn't have a bunch of "bat" garbage, and existed in a gloomy world. Despite these overtones, Batman was not treated particularly seriously. Gotham City was a phantasmogorical edifice; Batman's motivations were nebulous, not to mention his take on justice; and, not only don't we learn how he became a threatening fighter or found his inspiration, we never learn were "he gets those wonderful toys." It's clearly a simple fantasy and not, when it comes down to it, a particularly good one because many questions are left unanswered (not to mnention the fact that the focus is rarely on Batman, but on other satellite characters like The Joker).
From this shallow foundation, a Batman franchise would grow, subsequent inclusions moving further and further away from the base material, slowy and inexorably returning to the attitude that Batman, like comics, need not be taken or treated seriously. Comics, as Joel Schumacher said, were about fun and color and such. It would be Schumacher, with George Clooney and Arnold Schwarzenegger along for the ride, who would utterly destroy the franchise with a completely overcamp of the character, nipples, cod pieces, cackling, and ice-skates.
Then, something happened. Although it had occured in the comic book industry (more properly referred to as the "graphic novel" industry) since the 70s and took real shape in the mid 80s, the popular media required even more time. If one excludes Superman: The Movie, it was with Marvel heroes, led by X-Men and Spiderman, in which a more sophisticated take involving character development, cohesive plotting, real storytelling, in which we would see comic book characters treated seriously. Young men and women who had read comics as kids and were still reading them as adults were in the film industry. They were watching great "children's" programming like Batman: The Animated Series[/i[ and were writing their own stories in X-Files and similar shows. And they turned their eyes to the one character that has never been properly handled on the big screen since his inception in 1939. Batman Begins would be the result.
Batman Begins, starring Christian Bale as the title character, is by far the best film rendition of the character anywhere save, perhaps, the cartoon series. And, more importantly from a franchise perspective, it's the first truly good movie from the group as it not only takes The Batman character seriously, but treats him as a person with motivations, with goals, with drive, and with fears. The Batman is not a traditional superhero. He possesses no powers, he is painfully mortal, he's obsessed with loss. He's unpleasant and difficult to deal with. And, in this film, he's damn near perfect.
Batman Begins works largely because the focus is on the development of the character. There are no doubts about The Batman's motivations, why he dresses up as a bat, why he doesn't kill, why he's able to hide in plain sight... Virtually everything is answered in this film. The characterizations, from Michael Caine's Alfred Pennyworth to Gary Oldman's Jim Gordon, are spot on. Even characters with no comic basis, like Rachel Dawe's character, are handled well, and further support The Batman character.
This film draws heavily from the comics, particularly from Batman: Year One by Frank Miller. It also draws heavily from a variety of stories that feature Ra's Al Ghul. The treatment of Al Ghul in this is absolutely brilliant, particularly the twist that's uncovered by the last 1/4 of the film. His motivations are perfect and his establishment as a chief Bat-villain is well handled. The Scarecrow, played by Cillian Murphy, is well done. Gone is the idea that this is some frail professor; rather, what we have here is a man knee deep in public corruption who uses his genius to get paid.
The Batmobile is awesome. I was one of the many displeased with what I saw and I am pleased to say I was wrong. That thing looks cool as Hell and the stuff it accomplishes in the film is pretty awesome.
Visually, this is the most accurate portrayal of the character. Batman's appearances, as I've always advocated, are akin to the appearance of a monster in a horror film. Lots of background noise as criminals try to find him in vain. He comes out of the shadows, puts down a criminal, and disappears again. Or, even more frightening, he comes out of the shadows, grabs a criminal, and disappears with him. The fights are short and brutal... As Ducard says early on, the fights aren't a dance.
Another great aspect of this is the "fear" theme. This concept drives the entire film. Although on occasion it goes overboard, it's established in the tone and atmosphere from the very beginning. It's a refrain we get that reminds us what The Batman's about.
This film, while clearly a stand-alone, has set up for the future of Gotham City and its Dark Knight. The origins of some of The Batman's foes have been established in this film. The end of the film not only gave me chills, it gave me the giggles.
The music is excellent. Composed by Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard, it's a far cry from the material that made Danny Elfman famous. Although there are some motifs, including at least three for Batman, it doesn't have the dark, but triumphant, march that has defined the character for the past 16 years. This material is brooding and grim, very ambient at times, with a hint of electronics. Frankly, although many will miss a more thematic score, the music in this film is far more appropriate for The Batman.
This is by far the best Batman movie. It's also a good movie with strong performances, excellent cinematography, and a strong, cohesive story. It's heavily thematic that treats the characters seriously. Christopher Nolan, the director, should be commended for his handling of this film. I would say that it stands with X-Men and Spiderman II as the best comic book movie adaptations in the past decade and, so far, the best movie of the year.
Grade: 9
Comic books often get a bad rap. Since their inception in the late 1930s, comics have been written primarily for children and younger adults. Even the name "comic book" suggests something light hearted in Western culture, something not worthy of serious consideration (despite the fact that from a literary perspective, "comic" means a whole lot more). This attitude towards comics would persist until for decades, resulting in the dumbing down of the genre in the 50s (after WWII).
Perhaps the greatest culprit in degenerating the quality of comics as a genre occured in the late 1960s with Batman. This show single-handedly shattered any concept of involved, sophisticated storytelling for years and solidified in many people's minds the idea that comics were not to be taken seriously, were not to draw on real world inspirations, were not for anything but the most myopic of children.
The Batman character has probably suffered from this attitude more than any other superhero. Superman, being an affable, big brother figure empowered by the sun, can get away with light-heartedness and simplisity. Spiderman, essentially a variation on the whole "jokester" hero like Bugs Bunny or Briar Rabbit, can get away with it. Even a character as violent as Captain America can get away with it as he personifies, at his base level, a simplistic view of the American Dream and patriotism. However, The Batman -- the second great superhero -- was born in darkness and in violence. At his base, the character is a depressing vision of what a hero is because he's driven entirely and totally by revenge, not by some altruistic goal (this would be added, necessarily, later). Yet and still, camp and silliness and the attitude that children need to be faced with empty foolishness have often derailed the integrity of this and other more complex characters. This has especially been the case in movies.
When Warner Bros. released Batman in 1989, it was hailed as an achievement... and in a sense it was. By far it was the most sophisticated screen (big or little) rendition of the character at the time, it came the closest to capturing the nature of the character. Here, Batman was dark and mysterious. He didn't talk much, didn't have a bunch of "bat" garbage, and existed in a gloomy world. Despite these overtones, Batman was not treated particularly seriously. Gotham City was a phantasmogorical edifice; Batman's motivations were nebulous, not to mention his take on justice; and, not only don't we learn how he became a threatening fighter or found his inspiration, we never learn were "he gets those wonderful toys." It's clearly a simple fantasy and not, when it comes down to it, a particularly good one because many questions are left unanswered (not to mnention the fact that the focus is rarely on Batman, but on other satellite characters like The Joker).
From this shallow foundation, a Batman franchise would grow, subsequent inclusions moving further and further away from the base material, slowy and inexorably returning to the attitude that Batman, like comics, need not be taken or treated seriously. Comics, as Joel Schumacher said, were about fun and color and such. It would be Schumacher, with George Clooney and Arnold Schwarzenegger along for the ride, who would utterly destroy the franchise with a completely overcamp of the character, nipples, cod pieces, cackling, and ice-skates.
Then, something happened. Although it had occured in the comic book industry (more properly referred to as the "graphic novel" industry) since the 70s and took real shape in the mid 80s, the popular media required even more time. If one excludes Superman: The Movie, it was with Marvel heroes, led by X-Men and Spiderman, in which a more sophisticated take involving character development, cohesive plotting, real storytelling, in which we would see comic book characters treated seriously. Young men and women who had read comics as kids and were still reading them as adults were in the film industry. They were watching great "children's" programming like Batman: The Animated Series[/i[ and were writing their own stories in X-Files and similar shows. And they turned their eyes to the one character that has never been properly handled on the big screen since his inception in 1939. Batman Begins would be the result.
Batman Begins, starring Christian Bale as the title character, is by far the best film rendition of the character anywhere save, perhaps, the cartoon series. And, more importantly from a franchise perspective, it's the first truly good movie from the group as it not only takes The Batman character seriously, but treats him as a person with motivations, with goals, with drive, and with fears. The Batman is not a traditional superhero. He possesses no powers, he is painfully mortal, he's obsessed with loss. He's unpleasant and difficult to deal with. And, in this film, he's damn near perfect.
Batman Begins works largely because the focus is on the development of the character. There are no doubts about The Batman's motivations, why he dresses up as a bat, why he doesn't kill, why he's able to hide in plain sight... Virtually everything is answered in this film. The characterizations, from Michael Caine's Alfred Pennyworth to Gary Oldman's Jim Gordon, are spot on. Even characters with no comic basis, like Rachel Dawe's character, are handled well, and further support The Batman character.
This film draws heavily from the comics, particularly from Batman: Year One by Frank Miller. It also draws heavily from a variety of stories that feature Ra's Al Ghul. The treatment of Al Ghul in this is absolutely brilliant, particularly the twist that's uncovered by the last 1/4 of the film. His motivations are perfect and his establishment as a chief Bat-villain is well handled. The Scarecrow, played by Cillian Murphy, is well done. Gone is the idea that this is some frail professor; rather, what we have here is a man knee deep in public corruption who uses his genius to get paid.
The Batmobile is awesome. I was one of the many displeased with what I saw and I am pleased to say I was wrong. That thing looks cool as Hell and the stuff it accomplishes in the film is pretty awesome.
Visually, this is the most accurate portrayal of the character. Batman's appearances, as I've always advocated, are akin to the appearance of a monster in a horror film. Lots of background noise as criminals try to find him in vain. He comes out of the shadows, puts down a criminal, and disappears again. Or, even more frightening, he comes out of the shadows, grabs a criminal, and disappears with him. The fights are short and brutal... As Ducard says early on, the fights aren't a dance.
Another great aspect of this is the "fear" theme. This concept drives the entire film. Although on occasion it goes overboard, it's established in the tone and atmosphere from the very beginning. It's a refrain we get that reminds us what The Batman's about.
This film, while clearly a stand-alone, has set up for the future of Gotham City and its Dark Knight. The origins of some of The Batman's foes have been established in this film. The end of the film not only gave me chills, it gave me the giggles.
The music is excellent. Composed by Hans Zimmer and James Newton Howard, it's a far cry from the material that made Danny Elfman famous. Although there are some motifs, including at least three for Batman, it doesn't have the dark, but triumphant, march that has defined the character for the past 16 years. This material is brooding and grim, very ambient at times, with a hint of electronics. Frankly, although many will miss a more thematic score, the music in this film is far more appropriate for The Batman.
This is by far the best Batman movie. It's also a good movie with strong performances, excellent cinematography, and a strong, cohesive story. It's heavily thematic that treats the characters seriously. Christopher Nolan, the director, should be commended for his handling of this film. I would say that it stands with X-Men and Spiderman II as the best comic book movie adaptations in the past decade and, so far, the best movie of the year.
Grade: 9
