Rate S1: The Tomb of Horrors (corrected poll options)
- Thread starter Eternalknight
- Start date
cignus_pfaccari
First Post
3.
On the one hand, it's good to have a dungeon challenge you. I definitely remember all the traumatic super-dungeons my Birthright group went into (okay, that was White Plume Mountain and the Sword of Roele adventure, so only two).
On the other hand, it's either absolutely unfair and arbitrary, or encourages turning the place into an archaeology dig. Neither is good, IMNAAHO.
Brad
On the one hand, it's good to have a dungeon challenge you. I definitely remember all the traumatic super-dungeons my Birthright group went into (okay, that was White Plume Mountain and the Sword of Roele adventure, so only two).
On the other hand, it's either absolutely unfair and arbitrary, or encourages turning the place into an archaeology dig. Neither is good, IMNAAHO.
Brad
the black knight
First Post
Well, 63% of the respondants have given the Tomb of Horrors a 7-10 rating, so that puts to rest any question of it being anything less than an all-time classic. Not that I needed a poll to tell me that.
As for the module, yeah, I lost more than a few PCs trying to finish the thing. Did I feel frustrated? Hell, yes. Did I whine and call foul when it seemed harder than I had expected it to be? No, because I knew it was going to be tough from the beginning. I didn't use a lot of hirelings to get though it (although I wish I had); rather, I chose to sacrifice my characters time and again.
As for the traps and design of the module being arbitrary, that's a bunch of hogwash. Is it any more arbitrary than what someone else puts in his own dungeon? No, of course not. What's more, I fail to recognize the names of the loudest critics of this module on any published work I have read, so I suspect it's merely a case of sour grapes and/or someone having lost their favorite PC to the infamous Gygax shredding machine.
I love that story about Gary telling one cocky player to give him the name and address of his DM so he could write to the guy to tell him of the PC's demise. Heh. Gygax had a way with gamers that thought they were all that.
Still does.
As for the module, yeah, I lost more than a few PCs trying to finish the thing. Did I feel frustrated? Hell, yes. Did I whine and call foul when it seemed harder than I had expected it to be? No, because I knew it was going to be tough from the beginning. I didn't use a lot of hirelings to get though it (although I wish I had); rather, I chose to sacrifice my characters time and again.
As for the traps and design of the module being arbitrary, that's a bunch of hogwash. Is it any more arbitrary than what someone else puts in his own dungeon? No, of course not. What's more, I fail to recognize the names of the loudest critics of this module on any published work I have read, so I suspect it's merely a case of sour grapes and/or someone having lost their favorite PC to the infamous Gygax shredding machine.
I love that story about Gary telling one cocky player to give him the name and address of his DM so he could write to the guy to tell him of the PC's demise. Heh. Gygax had a way with gamers that thought they were all that.
Still does.
Quasqueton
First Post
Just some examples for those who aren't familiar with the ToH (bold and caps are Gygax's):
Very first area of the tomb complex (there are three "entrances" to the tomb) -- a 20' wide, 30' long tunnel ending at false double doors:
[sblock]1. FALSE ENTRANCE TUNNEL: The corridor is of plain stone, roughly worked, and is dark and full of cobwebs. The roof 20' overhead is obscured by these hanging strands, so casual observation will not reveal that it is composed of badly fitting stones. Daylight will be sufficient to reveal that there is a pair of oaken doors at the end of the passageway. If the roof is prodded with any force, or if the doors are opened, the roof of the tunnel will collapse and inflict 5-50 (5d10) hit points of damage upon each character inside of it, with no saving throw. The doors open outwards by great iron ring pulls. The cobwebs must be burned away to be able to inspect the tunnel ceiling.[/sblock]
Pit traps (10 total throughout the Tomb):
[sblock]All pits (except where noted to the contrary) throughout the Tomb are 10' deep and concealed by a counter-weighted trap door which opens as soon as any person steps on it. Thrusting with force upon these traps with a pole will reveal them 4 in 6 (d6, 1-4). Those who step upon a pit lid will have a base 100% of falling, modified downwards by 1% per point of dexterity through 12, and 2% for each point above 12, i.e. dexterity of 13 = 14% chance of not falling into a pit, dexterity of 14 = 16%, 15 = 18%, 16 = 20%, 17 = 22%, and 18 dexterity = 24% chance of not going in. At the bottom of each pit are 5 iron spikes coated with poison. Roll d6 to determine how many spikes wound the victim; 1, 2, and 3 meaning that number of spikes have wounded the victim, 4-6 equal NONE HAVE WOUNDED the character. Each spike causes 1-6 hit points of damage, and the victim must make a saving throw versus poison for each spike which wounds him or her. Any failure means the victim is killed by the poison.[/sblock]
And an untrapped secret door:
[sblock]17. MAGICAL SECRET DOOR: This entrance to the remainder of the Tomb is along the stairway which leads down. It can be found by any means, but nothing will enable it to be opened until the area is either viewed through a gem of seeing, a similar spell is cast, or a detect magic spell is used to pinpoint the magic aura. When the magic of the door is found, it will require a dispel magic or remove curse spell to remove the guard which prevents the door from being opened. Once accomplished, the secret door can be opened easily from either side.[/sblock]
And the adamantine door (the "marking" refers to the S on the map):
[sblock]24. ADAMANTINE DOOR: Although it is marked secret, it is very evident; the marking is simply to make certain that its actual nature is known. It has permanent anti-magics on it, and there is no magical or physical way of forcing entry. There are 3 slots in the door at about waist height. If 3 sword blades are shoved simultaneously into the slots, the 1' thick panel will swing open. THIS IS A ONE WAY DOOR WHICH CANNOT BE PREVENTED FROM CLOSING IN 5 ROUNDS![/sblock]
And here are the green slime tapestries (the secret door leading to the rest of the Tomb is behind one of the tapestries); the room is 30'x30':
[sblock]21. THE AGITATED CHAMBER: <snip irrelevant description by Quasqueton> Only the rather plain tapestries hanging upon the east and west walls appear to have been spared a rough looting. <snip> The weight of the players upon the balanced floor will have set a mechanism into motion, and each round they remain in the place, a d6 must be rolled. Any odd number resulting from a roll means that on the next turn the floor of the room will jump and buck up and down violently. Each player must be rolled for, with a 2 in 6 chance to fall and sustain 1 hit point of damage from abrasions and contusions.
The tapestries, which appear to feature weed-grown rocks and green and golden tan scenes of undersea life, are specially anti-magic treated creations of green slime and brown mold. If they are torn, they instantly turn into green slime and cover each and every player character/character standing before them, i.e. each covers a 20' long by 10' deep area of floor when it falls. Covered characters are turned to green slime and gone, with no recourse possible due to the amount of slime. Note that the tapestries can be handled normally, just not yanked so as to tear them (and they are well affixed at the top); however, if any character is holding one when the room becomes agitated, it is 75% probable that the jerking motion will tear the thing. If these hangings are subjected to burning they instantly turn to brown mold and drain 4-32 (4d8) h.p. of heat from all characters within 5' of the mold (and it gets worse from there . . .). Note the secret door behind the tapestry on the west wall.[/sblock](I'll have to look up the old brown mold to see what EGG means by "and it gets worse from there . . .".
Note that I am not passing judgement on anything, here. I am just posting some examples for the discussion.
Quasqueton
Very first area of the tomb complex (there are three "entrances" to the tomb) -- a 20' wide, 30' long tunnel ending at false double doors:
[sblock]1. FALSE ENTRANCE TUNNEL: The corridor is of plain stone, roughly worked, and is dark and full of cobwebs. The roof 20' overhead is obscured by these hanging strands, so casual observation will not reveal that it is composed of badly fitting stones. Daylight will be sufficient to reveal that there is a pair of oaken doors at the end of the passageway. If the roof is prodded with any force, or if the doors are opened, the roof of the tunnel will collapse and inflict 5-50 (5d10) hit points of damage upon each character inside of it, with no saving throw. The doors open outwards by great iron ring pulls. The cobwebs must be burned away to be able to inspect the tunnel ceiling.[/sblock]
Pit traps (10 total throughout the Tomb):
[sblock]All pits (except where noted to the contrary) throughout the Tomb are 10' deep and concealed by a counter-weighted trap door which opens as soon as any person steps on it. Thrusting with force upon these traps with a pole will reveal them 4 in 6 (d6, 1-4). Those who step upon a pit lid will have a base 100% of falling, modified downwards by 1% per point of dexterity through 12, and 2% for each point above 12, i.e. dexterity of 13 = 14% chance of not falling into a pit, dexterity of 14 = 16%, 15 = 18%, 16 = 20%, 17 = 22%, and 18 dexterity = 24% chance of not going in. At the bottom of each pit are 5 iron spikes coated with poison. Roll d6 to determine how many spikes wound the victim; 1, 2, and 3 meaning that number of spikes have wounded the victim, 4-6 equal NONE HAVE WOUNDED the character. Each spike causes 1-6 hit points of damage, and the victim must make a saving throw versus poison for each spike which wounds him or her. Any failure means the victim is killed by the poison.[/sblock]
And an untrapped secret door:
[sblock]17. MAGICAL SECRET DOOR: This entrance to the remainder of the Tomb is along the stairway which leads down. It can be found by any means, but nothing will enable it to be opened until the area is either viewed through a gem of seeing, a similar spell is cast, or a detect magic spell is used to pinpoint the magic aura. When the magic of the door is found, it will require a dispel magic or remove curse spell to remove the guard which prevents the door from being opened. Once accomplished, the secret door can be opened easily from either side.[/sblock]
And the adamantine door (the "marking" refers to the S on the map):
[sblock]24. ADAMANTINE DOOR: Although it is marked secret, it is very evident; the marking is simply to make certain that its actual nature is known. It has permanent anti-magics on it, and there is no magical or physical way of forcing entry. There are 3 slots in the door at about waist height. If 3 sword blades are shoved simultaneously into the slots, the 1' thick panel will swing open. THIS IS A ONE WAY DOOR WHICH CANNOT BE PREVENTED FROM CLOSING IN 5 ROUNDS![/sblock]
And here are the green slime tapestries (the secret door leading to the rest of the Tomb is behind one of the tapestries); the room is 30'x30':
[sblock]21. THE AGITATED CHAMBER: <snip irrelevant description by Quasqueton> Only the rather plain tapestries hanging upon the east and west walls appear to have been spared a rough looting. <snip> The weight of the players upon the balanced floor will have set a mechanism into motion, and each round they remain in the place, a d6 must be rolled. Any odd number resulting from a roll means that on the next turn the floor of the room will jump and buck up and down violently. Each player must be rolled for, with a 2 in 6 chance to fall and sustain 1 hit point of damage from abrasions and contusions.
The tapestries, which appear to feature weed-grown rocks and green and golden tan scenes of undersea life, are specially anti-magic treated creations of green slime and brown mold. If they are torn, they instantly turn into green slime and cover each and every player character/character standing before them, i.e. each covers a 20' long by 10' deep area of floor when it falls. Covered characters are turned to green slime and gone, with no recourse possible due to the amount of slime. Note that the tapestries can be handled normally, just not yanked so as to tear them (and they are well affixed at the top); however, if any character is holding one when the room becomes agitated, it is 75% probable that the jerking motion will tear the thing. If these hangings are subjected to burning they instantly turn to brown mold and drain 4-32 (4d8) h.p. of heat from all characters within 5' of the mold (and it gets worse from there . . .). Note the secret door behind the tapestry on the west wall.[/sblock](I'll have to look up the old brown mold to see what EGG means by "and it gets worse from there . . .".
Note that I am not passing judgement on anything, here. I am just posting some examples for the discussion.
Quasqueton
Last edited:
Quasqueton
First Post
I've been told that message board polls are meaningless, and you can't derive *any* info from them. <shrug> I'm assured it's an indisputable fact.
Quasqueton
Flexor the Mighty!
18/100 Strength!
Crothian said:
Yep, of course we are all liars...oh Intellectually Dishonest I mean.
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