Ray Winninger comments on the OGL

[jeffh]

Take D&D away from Hasbro

How? By what mechanism short of Hasbro ceasing to exist (not bloody likely) would this lead to Hasbro losing D&D?

 

[Grendel_Khan]

If this was preposed by newly installed leadership, likely they won't be leaders for long.

Corporate execs fail upwards all the time. Never assign intelligence or good planning to corps, especially big ones.

 

[Grendel_Khan]

Yes. This is moment in our hobby where we learn that we no longer matter, that we can't play the way we want, that content is packaged by a corporation that has no foundation in games anymore (when even WotC had connections to magic cards).
And this is the time when many fans (like myself) realize that it's artists, creative minds, and those who have inspiration that we want to invite into our imaginations - those who fantasize about dragons more than dollar signs.
D&D has lost its soul. I'm not going to sell my imagination, my hobby time, my precious moments with friends and family, to the highest bidder ... people who clearly can give a rat's behind about how we enjoy the game.

I could be remembering wrong, but haven't you posted a lot about being done with 5e long before any of this blew up? I'm not white-knighting for WotC—not by any means...I hope it dies in a fire. But it seems like you've gone a different direction anyway, so how are they determining how you play?

 

[eyeheartawk]

Corporate execs fail upwards all the time. Never assign intelligence or good planning to corps, especially big ones.

You're right.

I think it's time

 

[Ibrandul]

If this was preposed by newly installed leadership, likely they won't be leaders for long.

You would certainly think so, after the company has torched its relationship with both of its fandoms in the span of mere months.

On the other hand, they want massively more profit out of D&D. They’re not going to get it out of the people who are willing to leave them over this. They have a plan (which is obviously doomed to fail, but that’s irrelevant right now) to extract that profit from a different segment of their audience.

If you’re making a million bucks off of a thousand consumers, and you think that by completely transforming your business model you can make two million bucks off of just 800 of those consumers—by alienating the other 200—you go for it.

Especially if you fail the INT check to figure out that many of the 800 can’t consume your product without the 200.

This feels like part of the endgame with all this: a hard sunsetting of 5E to push people into 1D&D, as well as completely controlling the licensed version of your game on the VTT market. It's incredibly dumb, but it feels too coincidental for it not to be purposeful. Just an utter misread of the market and the audience.

This has been a cause of concern for me since the announcement of 1D&D, of panic since the “fireside chat,” and now—for me—of acceptance and even excitement.

D&D is dead. Long live D&D!

 

[jeffh]

If you’re making a million bucks off of a thousand consumers, and you think that by completely transforming your business model you can make two million bucks off of just 800 of those consumers—by alienating the other 200—you go for it.

I suspect the thought process is closer to making the 2 mil, or ideally more like 4-5 mil, off 20,000 consumers - i.e. a larger, individually less invested group. The mass market, basically. Those 20k will naturally have little overlap with the original 1k, I mean they couldn't possibly make up more than 5% of the new audience anyway, so what does it matter if they lose 200 or even 700 of those?

(All numbers are illustrative only and not necessarily meant to resemble the real ones.)

 

[Mallus]

Based on the threats of the OGL: deleting content, closing businesses, threatening VTTs, shutting down commentators, silencing fans on their messageboards. Want me to continue?

I agree that WotC can make D&D less convenient to play than it is now. But they can't delete content from the physical books I own, shut down VTTs that don't integrate the rules (or doing anything at all to groups playing via tools like Discord and Zoom), silence people who are talking on platforms they do not own (have you noticed there'a a lot of discussion about this online right now?), etc.

WotC can certainly do many consumer-unfriendly things. Like invalidate the digital purchases people like me made on sites like Roll20. Would be the first time I lost access to a digital material. But even that would only makes my current campaign slightly less easy to run.

 

[Retreater]

shut down VTTs that don't integrate the rules

It's possible and a threat that they're positing. Technically, VTTs who don't sign 1.1 can't host rules sets, modules, etc., for any OGL content. That means if you're playing any edition of D&D, Pathfinder, etc., the VTT would be in violation and would be sent a C&D or sued. VTTs will have to pull that content - which is the lion's share of players (from what we've seen posted on Fantasy Grounds' and Roll20's reports. So losing something like 75% of their players (and paid customers) isn't going to bode well for these companies, right?
So, yes, they are planning on indirectly shutting down VTTs. Everything is going to the OneD&D VTT. And do you think they will allow other games to be played on that platform?
They are trying to monopolize and crush the entirety of the industry.

 

[eyeheartawk]

It's possible and a threat that they're positing. Technically, VTTs who don't sign 1.1 can't host rules sets, modules, etc., for any OGL content. That means if you're playing any edition of D&D, Pathfinder, etc., the VTT would be in violation and would be sent a C&D or sued. VTTs will have to pull that content - which is the lion's share of players (from what we've seen posted on Fantasy Grounds' and Roll20's reports. So losing something like 75% of their players (and paid customers) isn't going to bode well for these companies, right?
So, yes, they are planning on indirectly shutting down VTTs. Everything is going to the OneD&D VTT. And do you think they will allow other games to be played on that platform?
They are trying to monopolize and crush the entirety of the industry.

Yeah, a VTT where the largest game being played on it is CoC (not a dig, I love CoC, just going by pure numbers here) is likely not enough to sustain any of those businesses.

 

[schneeland]

I disagree. I think it is in the best interests long term. Take D&D away from Hasbro - they are irresponsible and disrespectful stewards of the industry leader. It is in better hands elsewhere.
It stinks in the short (and possibly medium) terms.
But long term, I want to see some scorched earth at WotC and Hasbro.

I understand the sentiment. But instead of official D&D in other hands, I would rather like to see it cut back to normal a bit, while other publishers thrive - a successful Paizo, a growing Chaosium or a Free League Publishing that has stepped up would IMO be healthier for RPGs overall than just somebody else governing the fate of D&D.

And, to at least briefly connect this to the OP: even though I don't agree with everything that has happened to D&D under his direction, Mr. Winninger seems to genuinely care for RPGs, so it would be great if he was a part of that healthier RPG world.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

Yes and no.

I can keep running 5e in person with the material I already have in person forever, no changes.

But if WotC doesn’t change course, I highly doubt I’ll be able to run any edition of D&D on Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds once their current contracts with WotC expire.

Why? Do you mean you cannot run it at all or you cannot run it with current supplied vendor automation?

 

[Minigiant]

Exactly what I was going to say. Seen this too many times to count. Whichever of the new Microsoft MBAs came in and likely made this their "look at what good I can do for the company" initiative and now that it's all exploding they can't possibly let it fail. Alot of inertia to overcome internally then.

It's classic. People come in with a bad idea to stamp their name on it. Internally it's disliked. New folk ignore internal disgruntlement. Some of the old folk leave because of it. New ideas blows up in the new peoples faces. Attempt to salvage. New ideas is altered or ignored to not admit error or company takes huge hit.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

It's possible and a threat that they're positing. Technically, VTTs who don't sign 1.1 can't host rules sets, modules, etc., for any OGL content. That means if you're playing any edition of D&D, Pathfinder, etc., the VTT would be in violation and would be sent a C&D or sued. VTTs will have to pull that content - which is the lion's share of players (from what we've seen posted on Fantasy Grounds' and Roll20's reports. So losing something like 75% of their players (and paid customers) isn't going to bode well for these companies, right?
So, yes, they are planning on indirectly shutting down VTTs. Everything is going to the OneD&D VTT. And do you think they will allow other games to be played on that platform?
They are trying to monopolize and crush the entirety of the industry.

That is pretty much unpoliceable, and would probably fall afoul of EU privacy laws

 

[darjr]

Well that clears up the previous discussion over whether Ray was involved with this and pretty much also clears up any "why he suddenly left" discussion too.

That's interesting because it means this plan cannot be more than a few months old.

Literally every single piece of evidence we have supports it being only a few months old (perhaps as little as three), but it's interesting to see it effectively confirmed here.

The Kobold Press Twitter account for thier new rpg is from 2021.

 

[Alzrius]

So, has anybody asked Scott Rouse and Linae Foster what they think of this whole OGL fiasco?

 

[darjr]

So, has anybody asked Scott Rouse and Linae Foster what they think of this whole OGL fiasco?

This. I’ve been wondering.

 

[Nikosandros]

The Kobold Press Twitter account for thier new rpg is from 2021.

Couldn't it be a re-purposed account? Unless the Kobolds are skilled clairvoyants...

 

[payn]

It's classic. People come in with a bad idea to stamp their name on it. Internally it's disliked. New folk ignore internal disgruntlement. Some of the old folk leave because of it. New ideas blows up in the new peoples faces. Attempt to salvage. New ideas is altered or ignored to not admit error or company takes huge hit.

Person who implemented bad idea is praised and awarded for navigating the bad press and will of the customer and avoiding the crisis. Never minding that they created it in the first place.

 

[Ibrandul]

Why? Do you mean you cannot run it at all or you cannot run it with current supplied vendor automation?

At minimum the latter, but the former is also a distinct possibility. Here's how it would happen:

In a world where (for example) Roll20 loses its "custom arrangement" with WotC, the WotC content (5e PHB, etc.) most likely just disappears.

In that world, if OGL 1.0(a) stands, Roll20 can still offer the OGC from the SRDs as preprogrammed automation—and Roll20 can offer 3rd-party content that fills in the gaps. For many players and DMs it would be a hassle, but I think that a lot of groups would continue playing on Roll20 with this reduced functionality rather than switch to WotC's VTT.

In a world where OGL 1.0(a) falls, Roll20 marketplace probably can't offer anything that natively is automated specifically for 5e. ("But WotC doesn't own the mechanics" is a common counterargument that in my view seems very unlikely to prevail.) Roll20 would remain a robust VTT from a technical point of view, and you could code up whatever macros you want or use those coded by others, etc. But precious few of the groups currently playing 5e on Roll20 will be willing to do that.

Roll20 probably survives in those circumstances, primarily used as a platform for non-D&D games, with severely reduced profitability and a correspondingly reduced capacity to continue improving the platform by adding new features, etc. But with its revenue likely reduced by more than half, there's a nonzero chance it folds entirely.

 

[Desdichado]

Man you are so bitter.

I think people have a right to be. I'm not, but I get it, and I kind of would be amused of a whole ecosystem of "point and laugh" channels pop up to highlight every failure WotC has, just like has happened for nerd pop culture from Hollywood and the comics companies, etc.