re-revised Sorcerer

[Drow Jones]

Spell Merging (Su): Sorcerers can use multiple lower level spell slots to cast higher level spells. Whenever the sorcerer casts a spell, he can decide to either use up an appropriate spell slot of the same or higher level as the spell being cast as normal, or he can use up two or more spell slots, as long as the sum of the spell slot levels at least equals the level of the spell being cast. 0th level spell slots count as one-half spell level for this purpose. Spellstones (see below) cannot be used in conjunction with this ability.

FYI and also for comparison:

In Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed all spellcasters have the ability to convert a higher level spell slot into two lower level slots. Also, three lower lvl slots can be coverted into a one higher level slot.

Slots gained with conversion cannot be further converted, so you can't get 256 1st lvl slots with a 9th lvl one.

- DJ

 

[Thanee]

In Monte Cook's Arcana Unearthed all spellcasters have the ability to convert a higher level spell slot into two lower level slots. Also, three lower lvl slots can be coverted into a one higher level slot.

Interesting. As an immediate intuitive reaction, it seems pretty pointless to me to use the 3:1 trade. The other way around 1:2 seems highly useful, tho.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Li Shenron]

Compared to a specialist wizard it's not really +50%. More like +20%.

That's true, I wasn't thinking of specialist. Hovever for low-levels spells, Wiz goes up to 4/day or 5/day each level, while Sor goes up to 6/day. But if you look at the highest-level slots you get this:

at odd levels
Wizard 1*/day - 2 spells known
Sorcerer 0/day - 0 spells known
Thanee 3/day - 2 spells known

at even levels
Wizard 2*/day - 4 spells known
Sorcerer 3/day - 1 spells known
Thanee 4/day - 3 spells known

*+1 if specialist

I agree that the core Sorcerer is paying a huge price for her spontaneous casting, but in your variant you basically got rid of the price altogether!
Sure that the Wizard can still expand the spells known (not for free...), but the basis is still that your Sorcerer knows only a few less spells of highest level, casts more and spontaneously. And also gets bonus feats. Maybe the amount of spells/day becomes less important at high levels, but anyway I still believe that spontaneous casting is too much well worth the reduced knowledge.

 

[Li Shenron]

I want to try another option. From UA's divine spontaneous casters variant, let's try to see what happens if we apply the variant to the core Wizard (not that UA material is necessarily balanced or playtested, tho... ).

I think for clerics and druids the trick is:

- keep the same spells/day table
- use the sorcerer's spells known table
- add domain spells (for clerics) or Summon Nature's Ally xxx (for druids) to known spells

If that was applicable to core wizards (non-specialist for now), we can think of adding a spell known at each level from I to IX following some theme chosen at 1st level (a fixed list of 9 spells approved by the DM, in other words).

That would lead to a "spontaneous wizard" with the same amount of spells/day but less spells known; compared to your sorcerer variant it should be very close in known spells, it will have the feats and faster access to higher level slots, but at least it would have less spells/day and only 1 spell known of top level when the new level opens up. To me it seems very similar to your variant, only less extreme! What do you think about the idea? Obviously you still can tinker with class skill and switch Int with Cha, that's not a problem.

 

[Thanee]

New version with some changes...

Thanee's re-revised Sorcerer

Altered Spells Known:

_1st 4/2
_2nd 5/3
_3rd 5/3/2
_4th 6/4/3
_5th 6/4/3/2
_6th 7/5/4/3
_7th 7/5/4/3/2
_8th 8/5/5/4/3
_9th 8/5/5/4/3/2
10th 9/5/5/5/4/3
11th 9/5/5/5/4/3/2
12th 9/5/5/5/4/4/3
13th 9/5/5/5/4/4/3/1
14th 9/5/5/5/4/4/4/2
15th 9/5/5/5/4/4/4/2/1
16th 9/5/5/5/4/4/4/3/2
17th 9/5/5/5/4/4/4/3/2/1
18th 9/5/5/5/4/4/4/3/3/2
19th 9/5/5/5/4/4/4/3/3/2
20th 9/5/5/5/4/4/4/3/3/3

Altered Spells Per Day:

_1st 5/3
_2nd 6/4
_3rd 6/5/3
_4th 6/6/4
_5th 6/6/5/3
_6th 6/6/6/4
_7th 6/6/6/5/3
_8th 6/6/6/6/4
_9th 6/6/6/6/5/3
10th 6/6/6/6/6/4
11th 6/6/6/6/6/5/3
12th 6/6/6/6/6/6/4
13th 6/6/6/6/6/6/5/3
14th 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/4
15th 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/5/3
16th 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/4
17th 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/5/3
18th 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/4
19th 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/5
20th 6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6/6

Skill Points: Sorcerers get (4+Int modifier) skill points per level.

Class Skills: Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge: arcana (Int), Knowledge: the planes (Int), Profession (Wis), Spellcraft (Int), and Use Magic Device (Cha).

Note: Dropped Gather Information and Sense Motive.

Bonus Feats: Sorcerers gain a bonus feat at 5th, 10th, 15th and 20th level. The bonus feat must either be a metamagic feat or a draconic feat [Complete Arcane].

Note: Added draconic feats.

Blood Magic: Sorcerers do not use material components when casting spells, they still require foci, however. If a spell has a costly material component, instead of providing this the sorcerer has to spend experience points equal to one-tenth of the cost (in gp) of the material component needed normally.

Note: Normally the xp to gp ratio is 1:5, I decided on the 1:10 ratio to give credit to the sorcerer's limited spell selection and the fact, that their spells are often used over and over again.

Errata to the Sorcerer's 'Spell Swapping' ability: Upon reaching 3rd level, and at ever odd-numbered sorcerer level after that (5th, 7th, and so on), a sorcerer can choose to learn a new spell in place of one he already knows. ...

Note: Alternatively, the 'Spell Swapping' could be allowed for every level from 2nd onward.

* * * * *​

Option 1:

Clarification to Metamagic Rods: Casters that prepare spells have to use Metamagic Rods during preparation, but also have to wield the rod when casting the metamagicked spell. Casters that cast spells spontaneously increase the casting time when casting a metamagicked spell as normal.

Option 2:

Clarification to Metamagic Rods: Casters that prepare spells have to use Metamagic Rods during preparation, but also have to wield the rod when casting the metamagicked spell. Casters that cast spells spontaneously increase the casting time when casting a metamagicked spell as normal.

Errata to Metamagic: Spontaneous casters can cast a metamagicked spell without the usual increase in casting time. Instead a spontaneous caster, such as a bard or sorcerer, must spend a move action prior to casting the spell to modify it accordingly. A quickened spell would therefore be a move action and then a free action.

Errata to Metamagic Rods: Sorcerers (and other spontaneous casters) can use Metamagic Rods without the usual increase in casting time. Instead they have to spend a move action prior to casting the spell, just as detailed above.

Option 3:

Errata to Metamagic Rods: Casters that prepare spells can use Metamagic Rods during spellcasting and decide upon their use spontaneously at that time.

Errata to Quicken Spell: Spontaneous casters can use Quicken Spell without an increase in casting time. Casting a quickened spell is a free action for a spontaneous caster, such as bard or sorcerer.

Errata to Metamagic Rods: Sorcerers can use Metamagic Rods without an increase in casting time.

Note: Option 1 or 2 are highly recommended.

* * * * *​

New Item: Spellstone: Spellstones hold the essence of a spell slot that can be used for spontaneous casting. If the owner of a spellstone is able to spontaneously cast spells, he can use the spellstone instead of one of his own spell slots once per day, when spontaneously casting a spell. Cost: Level² x 1,000gp.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

I agree that the core Sorcerer is paying a huge price for her spontaneous casting, but in your variant you basically got rid of the price altogether!

This is not true. The biggest price to pay is the spells known!

It's - in the end - pretty much the same, just the rate at which the sorcerer gains them is increased, not the total number (only very slightly).

Hardly getting rid of this altogether. Hey, even the bard gets 2 spells known whenever he achieves a new spell level!

Sure that the Wizard can still expand the spells known (not for free...), but the basis is still that your Sorcerer knows only a few less spells of highest level, casts more and spontaneously. And also gets bonus feats. Maybe the amount of spells/day becomes less important at high levels, but anyway I still believe that spontaneous casting is too much well worth the reduced knowledge.

The reduced knowledge is still very much there. You just have some more options (thus some more flexibility - and considering, that the sorcerer is all about flexibility...).

Also remember, that the wizard is only behind the sorcerer in flexibility, if you are in a hurry. If you have time, the wizard's flexibility is unchallenged (except by the divine casters, who simply know their complete spell lists ).

Bye
Thanee

 

[Li Shenron]

This is not true. The biggest price to pay is the spells known!

It's - in the end - pretty much the same, just the rate at which the sorcerer gains them is increased, not the total number (only very slightly).

Hardly getting rid of this altogether. Hey, even the bard gets 2 spells known whenever he achieves a new spell level!


The reduced knowledge is still very much there. You just have some more options (thus some more flexibility - and considering, that the sorcerer is all about flexibility...).

Let's see how many spells they know at level 20th - although this may not be very informative...

Level 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th 
Wiz  18 5*  4   4   4   4   4   4   4   8           + "bought" spells (* + Int)
Sor   9 5   5   4   4   4   3   3   3   3
You   9 5   5   5   4   4   4   3   3   3
UA    9 6   6   5   5   5   4   4   4   4

We note that (1) the core Sor is not that far beyond the core Wiz except for cantrips; (2) your variant Sor is basically the same; (3) the UA variant I propose is even stronger than yours. Now the question is: why did I waste my time in this self-annihilating argumentation?

 

[Thanee]

*LOL*

That last comment was funny as hell!

Bye
Thanee

 

[Thanee]

We note that (1) the core Sor is not that far beyond the core Wiz except for cantrips;

If you don't count two-and-a-half times as many 9th level spells...

Bye
Thanee

 

[Drow Jones]

Interesting. As an immediate intuitive reaction, it seems pretty pointless to me to use the 3:1 trade. The other way around 1:2 seems highly useful, tho.

I guess it's an option mainly used in emergencies only. When you absolutely must have one more fireball.

- DJ