reach weapon tactics...

[00durrin]

Sound off on ways a reach weapon can give a character the advantage in a melee fight with an equivalent opponent without a reach weapon.

If I take a 5 foot step back on my turn, can I then move away the rest of my movement without provoking an attack of opportunity?
If I attack, then step back, then move back does he get an AoO or can I even do this? If I can, wouldn't that force the fighter to incur an attack of opportunity as he moves in to hit me on his turn? And also give him only 1 attack per round to my two (because he gets AoO'd every turn)? Maybe movement doesn't work this way though.

Any other tactics? If I use a reach weapon that can trip, tripping him would be especially bad. With improved trip would I still get an attack on him for downing him with an AoO?

 

[Hypersmurf]

If I take a 5 foot step back on my turn, can I then move away the rest of my movement without provoking an attack of opportunity?

You can only take a 5' step if it is your only movement for the round.

What you can do is use Spring Attack, to move back five feet as part of your Move Action, attack with ten foot reach, and then move back the rest of your Move Action. This will not draw an AoO from your target, but it can still draw one from other people who threaten you. If you have Tumble, you can even avoid those.

And also give him only 1 attack per round to my two (because he gets AoO'd every turn)?

That's right... but only if you end up more than 10' away from him each turn, or he'll just 5' step through your reach.

Any other tactics? If I use a reach weapon that can trip, tripping him would be especially bad. With improved trip would I still get an attack on him for downing him with an AoO?

Some people will say no, and that you can't Cleave off an AoO either.

But the answer is yes, you can get your free attack from Improved Trip from an AoO.

If you're Large, get Large and in Charge.

If you're Psionic, get Stand Still.

If you're allowed Kalamar feats, get Movement Check.

Get Knockdown.

Get Combat Reflexes.

If you're allowed access to feats that let you use a Reach weapon at 5' - I don't think there are any in WotC publications, but there are some third-party or Netbook feats out there - that's a big help.

-Hyp.

 

[thegreatbuddha]

If I take a 5 foot step back on my turn, can I then move away the rest of my movement without provoking an attack of opportunity?

Nope. You can only take a 5ft step by foregoing any other move actions you may be entitled to have (You can still use move-equivalent actions, like reloading a crossbow, for example). once you 5ft step, your movement is ended for that round.

Your best tactics for a reach fighter are to either be a psychich warrior and take stand still + combat reflexes, or play a fighter and take MOvement Check (Kingdoms of Kalamar Players Guide) + Combat reflexes. Stand Still/Movement Check end your opponen't movement if you connect with an AoO. As long as you hit them with your AoOs, they won't ever get within melee range.

Later on, you'll want to take Pressing Attack (Path of the Sword). It lets you follow your opponent with a 5ft step when he takes one, thus keeping him within AoO range. Quick Draw is nice to have if anything gets past your reach weapon. Apart fromthat, just take whatever you want.

Tactics-wise, your best bet is to hit a few opponents with AoOs, then use the full attack option on your own turn and then 5ft step away from your enemies, forcing them to either take a move action towards you and suffer another round of AoOs, or 5ft step towards you and not be within range, allowing you to full attack and 5ft step away once more.

Anytime you have the chance, lure your foes into a narrow corridor. Barring ranged weapons or magic, one man with movement check and a polearm can hold a 5ft pathway indefinitely.

 

[Brista]

Re: Re: reach weapon tactics...

If you're allowed access to feats that let you use a Reach weapon at 5' - I don't think there are any in WotC publications, but there are some third-party or Netbook feats out there - that's a big help.

-Hyp.

Using a spiked chain would cover this aspect

 

[Hypersmurf]

Re: Re: Re: reach weapon tactics...

Using a spiked chain would cover this aspect

"Okay, DM, I've got my Psychic Warrior/Fighter/Master of Chains all worked out. With the Mind's Eye 'Reach' power and Stand Still, Combat Reflexes, Great Cleave, and a Keen, Shocking Spiked Chain of Speed... he kicks ass! What adventure are we playing?"

"K1-3... 'Against the Kytons'."

-Hyp.

 

[Zhure]

IMCs, I allow polearm wielders to use haft-fighting tactics. Originally I made it a seperate Feat (haft fighting), which seemed too much a PITA.

My current solution is to allow the haft of a polearm to act as a two-handed club (not a great club, but a medium simple weapon club wielded in two hands) against adjacent targets. Consequently, many pole-fighters IMCs take specialization with Club as well as with their primary polearm of choice.

Enchanting the haft treats a polearm as a double-weapon. Specialization, Weapon Focus and Weapon Finesse (for the club part only) must be taken seperately for the haft as well as the polearm if the character wants to gain the benefit of the feats for both the haft and the polearm.

Greg

 

[Murrdox]

Knockdown combined with Combat Reflexes are great for reach weapon users.

Take FULL advantages of those attacks of opportunity. If an enemy comes into your range, and you get an AoO, then knock him down, and he has to waste the rest of his turn standing up, and can't get to you to attack on that turn.

As long as you can do 10 points of damage on your attack (which isn't too hard) this tactic works wonderfully.

 

[Stalker0]

Knockdown combined with Combat Reflexes are great for reach weapon users.

Take FULL advantages of those attacks of opportunity. If an enemy comes into your range, and you get an AoO, then knock him down, and he has to waste the rest of his turn standing up, and can't get to you to attack on that turn.

As long as you can do 10 points of damage on your attack (which isn't too hard) this tactic works wonderfully.

Question, can you stand up as a move-equivalent, take a 5foot step then attack, or would the 5 foot step count as a normal move in that case?

Because it might be vialbe to trip as an AOO, dropping him at 10 feet, meaning he has to stand up and get near you, which may be all he can do.

 

[SnowDog]

Obstacles

When I played a generalist fighter for a while, it was always fun to be in a situation where my reach weapons could come into play.

The situation I remember the most was using the weapon to reach over an obstacle. The enemy had to walk around the obstacle to reach my character, and he had a great time dancing around the obstacle and attacking over it (I think it was a fire pit).

Of course, any time your fighter is being too much of a pain because of reach, your enemy is likely to just decide to ignore you and attack a softer target (that mage with AC 13 is probably a nice target). There's almost always a time when you end up dropping the glaive and pulling out shield+sword, to defend your friends' lives.

Core rules-wise, Mobility, Spring Attack, Tumble, and Combat Reflexes should be your best friends. Get to the point where you're just super-mobile on the battlefield. Sure, every once in a while you'll get AoO'd but it's not going to be a deal-breaker. You'll cause a lot more heartache than you'll suffer.

And, for the times when you need to fight more traditionally, get quickdraw so you aren't wasting any time pulling out weapons. And don't get too attached to your reach weapons -- if you're like me, you'll leave them behind on the ground more than once in your life .

 

[Murrdox]

Question, can you stand up as a move-equivalent, take a 5foot step then attack, or would the 5 foot step count as a normal move in that case?

Because it might be vialbe to trip as an AOO, dropping him at 10 feet, meaning he has to stand up and get near you, which may be all he can do.

I believe yes, you can do the above... stand up, take a 5' step towards someone, and attack... but that's the maximum.

SO.... take the following scenario.

You're 20 feet away from an opponent with a Guisarme (10' reach weapon that can be used to make trip attacks)

You move towards him, and at 15' away, he gets an attack of opportunity on you as you try to get next to him. He hits, does 10 points of damage, and trips you with the Knockdown feat.

At this point, you've already moved 15', which is your move action. Now, you need to stand up, which is a Move Equivalent action. At this point, you've effectively double-moved for this turn, meaning that you can't take a 5' step and attack.

To make matters EVEN BETTER... when the opponent's turn comes up, you're standing 10' away from him in range of his Guisarme. He full attacks you, knocks you down again, and then steps back 5'. If you want to get to attack him next turn, you're going to need to stand up AGAIN, and if you move against him, you're going to take ANOTHER AoO.