Reach Weapons and AoO

[Cayle]

Hi all,

I don' know if this question was asked already, so please be kind

Is it true, that a creature with a reach weapon, such as a longspear, could get an AoO if an attacker moves first into his threat-range of 10 ft, and then closes in. Like any Creature with reach, you should get an AoO for him leaving the first treatened square. I know it's true for Spiked Chain, but that's different, because the Spiked Chain also threatens Squares directly in front of you, while a longspear doesn't.

Why shouldn't any smart fighter then always have a spear ready, and the Quick Draw Feat, to gain an extra attack when enemys close in, then drop the weapon and draw his close-quarters-weapon.

Please prove me wrong, for i find this highly abusive at starting level.

-Cayle

 

[MerakSpielman]

Well, they're not going to do it TOO often, because they keep dropping their longspear. I think you'll find that in practice it doesn't mess things up to much when a fighter tries this, especially when he's fighting multiple opponents and does not have combat reflexes.

 

[dcollins]

Is it true, that a creature with a reach weapon, such as a longspear, could get an AoO if an attacker moves first into his threat-range of 10 ft, and then closes in.

Yes, it is true.

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Please prove me wrong, for i find this highly abusive at starting level.

Abusive is a strong word.

Creatures with an Int 4 or better will usually use ranged weapons/attacks, if they have them, when presented with the opportunity to be skewered on a waiting spear.

The tactic of which you speak is a very minor tactical advantage that only shines against the dumbest and least prepared opponents. Where Reach weapons actually work well in D&D are when you are facing Large creatures who have Reach themselves, when you are trying to discourage opponents from engaging in melee with spellcasters or archers behind you, or when you want more flexibility to set up potential Cleave attacks.

 

[mvincent]

Please prove me wrong, for i find this highly abusive at starting level.

As mentioned, you are entirely correct. Yes, this is a pretty good tactic for low level PC's. A reach weapon basically helps you get the first swing. It doesn't help *that* much though. If the PC wins initiative, he generally gets the first swing anyway, and if he loses initiative, then he's flat footed (and so can't AoO). It also doesn't work against creatures with reach (i.e. are large).

Reach weapons are pretty decent, but they involve some tactics for both sides (which is part of the fun).

 

[Magesmiley]

What you've noted is one of the best benefits of reach weapons. I'm of the opinion that its not horribly too powerful. It does come into play quite a bit if your opponents charge at you a lot.

The longspear isn't the best of the reach weapons for the reason mentioned - you can't hit people adjacent to you. The spiked chain is better because it has reach AND can hit adjacent foes as well (however it does require an exotic weapon proficiency feat to be spent).

Another interesting thing to do is use the enlarge person spell. It will give a (normally) medium creature a 10' reach with a regular weapon in addition to being able to hit adjacent foes. A simple 1st level spell which can be particularly effective in these types of circumstances.

Overall I don't think reach weapons are overpowered - all too often players are on the wrong end of a reach weapon and wishing they had some themselves. If it becomes a regular problem, just start equipping some of the monsters with them too.

 

[SorroW]

A bit OT

But still a thought I had when I read this. Will a person with Spiked Chain and the Feat Hold the Line get 2 AoO against a charging enemy?

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

But still a thought I had when I read this. Will a person with Spiked Chain and the Feat Hold the Line get 2 AoO against a charging enemy?

Yes.

And if he Readies an action, he could get a third.

With the right choice of weapons this third attack would be at double damage.

Can you see why intelligent combatants prefer not to charge opponents waiting with a ready spear?

 

[Hypersmurf]

But still a thought I had when I read this. Will a person with Spiked Chain and the Feat Hold the Line get 2 AoO against a charging enemy?

He'll need Combat Reflexes and 12+ Dex as well, but yes.

He can do the same with a longspear or any reach weapon.

-Hyp.

 

[Zephyrus]

I once built a character around the premise of getting extra AoO by using a reach weapon. A Fighter with a high dex and Combat Reflexes using a Glaive. It was actually somewhat amusing in the first adventure as the party entered a manison (ie. no problem with low ceilings) to clear it out of a dire rat infestation. The creatures being dumb in the first two encounters charged the group upon invading the room. Minimum damage killed them and it was just a matter of hitting as they provoked AoO's. an 18 STR and a 16 DEX pretty well assured that 4-5 of the pest died a round from my fighter alone.. and as it happened their were usually only 4-5 to a room. After 3 rooms the DM while not angry but clearly caught off guard said 'okay, you clear the place out'. Thats not to say the entire adventure was a breeze, having the glaive helped in alot of fights, but the GM was at least aware of how effective reach could be expecially in the hands of a PC.

The disadvantage of this tactic is that you've gotta back up once an opponent engages you, or switch weapons. Your also limited if you are in an area like caverns where such a large weapon could be ruled difficult or impossible to weild. Also, Reach weapons are hard to 'sneak' around with, so walking around town with one is likly to make the character memorable ( Hey!.. did you see a group of people come through here, one of them had a really long polearm! and wore.... ). Also, unless you have combat reflexes you only get ONE AoO a round. Also, you only get one per opponent per turn. Its countered by other creatures with reach (they dont need to brave the AoO to get to you) and by opponents with ranged attacks.

Combat Reflexes and Reach are wonderful against mobs of weak enemies (things you can kill or cripple in a single hit) and GM's should vary their encounters a little so that that kind of character doenst steal the show all the time (but at least now and then to make them feel special).