Readied actions chain...

[RigaMortus]

A situation came up in last night's campaign where it was difficult to determine the order in which readied actions were to go off...

The initiative order was as such:

My initiative = 21
Kobold initiative = 18
Party Member 1 initiative = 12
Party Member 2 initiative = 11
Party Member 3 initiative = 10

Now here is the situation... Party member 3 had a cloth rag in which the Deeper Darkness spell was cast on it. The plan was for him to keep the Deeper Darkness cloth exposed so nobody was able to see. Then we would all "Ready" an action to attack when he put the cloth away, thus making it light again. We ruled that it would be a MEA to put the cloth away, then another MEA if he wanted to take it back out again.

So the plan worked at first... Everyone "Readied" their action so that once the light appeared, they would attack whatever kobolds were visible, then party member 3 would pull the cloth back out so the kobolds could not attack... After the first time it worked, the kobolds caught on and they too readied an action for the "coming of the light".

Since everyone's readied action went off, the new initiative was like so:

My initiative = 11
Kobold initiative = 18
Party Member 1 initiative = 11
Party Member 2 initiative = 11
Party Member 3 initiative = 10

Now round two... Everything goes light again... However, the kobolds were ready too, and thus the dilemna. Who goes first in the initiative chain? You could argue the kobolds go first because they had the higher initiative, but then again their new initiative would be an 11. I argued that I should go first since I had a higher Dex then the kobolds. Or do we go at the same time? If we go at the same time, what happens if I kill a kobold that would have normally hit me? Would he still hit me, or would that negate his attack?

Most importantly, is this even a legal representation of how "Ready" works? It seemed like a good plan at the time, and I could see from a non-roundbased combat situation where it would work. But technically the Ready would have to go off before the action that triggers it, which means before it goes light again. Then you have a paradox, because how would we know it is going to become light until it really is?

 

[kreynolds]

Technically, all any of you did was refocus so that the good guys went together, then the bad guys went together. It's not really illegal, there is just no point to it. There is no advantage except changing your initiative (which can be an advantage all on its own).

 

[Artoomis]

Let's see if I can lay this out.

G = good guys, B= all Bad Guys

Original iniative:

G1=21
B = 18
G2 = 12
G3 = 11
G4 = 10

G1,2 and 3 ready an action to act when G4 acts.

G3 acts.

Intiatives are now:

B = 18
G1 = 10.1
G2 = 10.1
G3 = 10.1
G4 - 10

But ties are not allowed. Using the standard method for breaking ties, check dex scores, highest dex goes first - in the case of ties, randomly decide.

Let's assume G1 dex = 20, G2 = 15, G3 = 18

Intiative order is now:

B = 18
G1 = 10.3
G3 = 10.2
G2 = 10.1
G4 = 10

Now let's assume that everyone readies to act when G4 acts, and has a Dex of 12. (It actually only matters that B readied an action - because everyone else is on intiative 10 anyway, so the intitiative tie need to be broken either way.)

G4 acts.

The initiative order is now:

G1 = 10.4
G3 = 10.3
G2 = 10.2
B = 10.1
G4 = 10

Note on notation: Actually everyone at this point is on initiative "10," but the d20 system requires you to figure out who goes first, so you can add additional notation like decimal values to keep track of it.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[RigaMortus]

I guess basically what you are saying is that I was right in assuming Dex would break the initiative tie...

But I am still concerned if this is a legal use of Ready...

As it is stated, the readied action takes place BEFORE the action that triggers it. You also can't take your turn in the middle of someone elses if I am correct. So when I ready to "attack when it becomes light" then by this definition I would attack before it becomes light, which means it would be dark, which means my Ready wouldn't trigger, thus the paradox.

I suppose I could have worded it, "I attack as it goes dark again" and then what would happen is, my group member would hide the Darkness cloth and it would go light. I do nothing at this point. As my group member pulls out the darkness cloth it starts to go dark, so then my attack would go off (while it is still light).

But that doesn't answer the question if I can attack or take my turn in the middle of someone elses. Remember, to put the darkness cloth away was a Move-Equiv action, which means it was already that person's turn.

Thoughts?

 

[KarinsDad]

My thought is that the Ready Action is broken.

The paradoxes are due to the allowance of impossible and improbable events.

Example:

Caster 1 Readies a Counterspell on Caster 2
Caster 2 casts a Slow
Caster 1 does not have a Slow, but he has a Haste. So, he counters automatically with that.

Next round, caster 1 goes first again. Plus, there was no chance of him just countering the Slow on one character because he must by the rules go first.

This means that caster 2 starts his spell, but caster 1 is ALWAYS so quick that he can immediately determine what spell caster 2 is casting, pull out his components, and cast faster than caster 2, even though caster 2 already has his components out and has already started (i.e. how can he not since he needed them out for caster 1 to determine what spell caster 2 was going to cast). Every time caster 1 can do this.

Regardless of relative dexterities. Regardless of caster 2 being hasted. Regardless of everything.

Impossible things should not be allowed and even improbable things should have some form of die roll to see if they happen. IMO.


As a solution for your problem, re-roll initiatives for the readying characters. Everyone still goes on 10, but highest initiative means that the creature who rolled best wins. That way, it is not ALWAYS the guy with the fastest dexterity.

As for it being a legal use of Ready, it doesn't matter. Ready allows you to do things before the event that triggers it. Impossibly so, but that's how it works. I would not worry about it.

 

[Moonglum]

I would have the Kobolds flail around randomly, trying to rip the fabric. That would probably upset someone...

 

[Xahn'Tyr]

If you want to take your action fight AFTER it becomes light, then you are delaying rather than readying. Ditto for the kobolds. So you would all have an init one less than the light-bringer, and dexterity would determine action order.

If you want to interrupt something, or go right before it happens, then you ready. If you want to go right after something happens, then you delay.

 

[Artoomis]

I should have caught that dealy bit earlier.

Ready = interrupt

Delay = act after

You CAN interrput the middle of a round (like couterspelling after the bad guys moves, then casts a spell), tough your initiative still gets to be before theirs.

Delay is different from READY - you get your FULL actions and can't act in the middle of the bad guys round.

That's because you can

... just wait until some time later in the round and act then, thus fixing the combatant's new initiative count at that point.

You cannot fix your initiative to be in the middle of someone's actions.