D&D 5E Ready action before combat starts? Advantage on initiative?

[Ellsworth]

Hello, EN World! First time poster here. Apologies if this has been discussed, but I didn't find any answers when I searched the forums.

My question may be better presented through a particular situation, so here goes...

The party walks into a room full of bandits and kills them.
There's a door in the room, and on the other side is another room full of bandits who hear the combat.
The party opens the door.

The party is prepared for anything, but so are the bandits, so neither get surprise (yes?). However, it seems plausible that the bandits, while listening to the combat in the next room, might prepare themselves to perform a particular action if the door opens. For example: One of the bandits might prepare to fire his shortbow at whatever comes through the door the moment it opens. This sounds like it could be a 'ready' action, but technically a 'ready' action is taken on one's turn after initiative has been rolled and combat is underway.

My question is threefold:

(1) Despite the rules for a 'ready' action, would it be appropriate to allow the bandit to take such an action before combat begins? Realistically speaking, if someone was breaking down my front door, I could stand ready with my shortbow and fire at them the moment they opened the door before they could take action against me.

(2) If allowing the bandit to take a 'ready' action isn't suitable for this situation, would it be appropriate to give him advantage on his attack roll? I'm not sure that makes sense. What about giving him advantage on his initiative roll? That may be a better idea.

(3) If any of the alternatives I've presented here are appropriate, and the party and bandit roles were reversed, would it be sensible to treat the party accordingly?

Any thoughts on this?

Thanks!

 

[MerricB]

In general, it's not appropriate to take the "ready" action before initiative is rolled. Initiative is, in fact, the determination of who shoots first when both sides are aware of the other. You might decide the party are surprised, but that would be the mechanic to handle it.

Cheers!

 

[Paraxis]

A couple ways to handle the situation.

Have the second room of bandits roll for initiative and join the battle the round after they are alerted. Now with them in the turn order it makes perfect sense for them to ready actions.

Play it as just a normal initiative triggered when the door is opened, both sides are ready for action.

If one side in this case the bandits don't want to make their presence known they can try and stay quite and hide in ambush, while the fight in the adjoining room is going on. This could lead to surprise against the heroes when they open the door.

Personally I like the first option the best.

 

[Ellsworth]

In general, it's not appropriate to take the "ready" action before initiative is rolled. Initiative is, in fact, the determination of who shoots first when both sides are aware of the other. You might decide the party are surprised, but that would be the mechanic to handle it.

Thanks, MerricB! I think I may have been taking the word "surprise" too literally in this context. Obviously the party wouldn't be surprised to discover the bandits or any other type of enemy of the other side of the door, but the surprise mechanic would treat the situation in such a way that it would give the bandits the appropriate edge over the party. That's a much simpler solution than all those possible alternatives I presented.

So.. Put another way, the bandits would get to move or take an action first (using the surprise mechanic) because they have had time to prepare for the party coming through the door.

Does this make sense to everyone else?

 

[Ellsworth]

Have the second room of bandits roll for initiative and join the battle the round after they are alerted. Now with them in the turn order it makes perfect sense for them to ready actions.

Play it as just a normal initiative triggered when the door is opened, both sides are ready for action.

Thanks, Paraxis! Good thinking. That may work as well.

Let's change the situation a bit...

The first room is empty (no bandits), but the door to the second room (with bandits) is locked and the party's rogue fails to pick the lock.
The party proceeds to bash down the door, alerting the bandits in the next room.

There wouldn't be a roll for initiative before the door is bashed down, and neither side would be surprised; the bandits hear the party bashing at the door and the party is preparing for whatever lies on the other side. In this case, I think MerricB's suggestion of using the surprise mechanic in order to give the bandits the appropriate edge over the party makes sense here too.

Any thoughts?

 

[MerricB]

Thanks, MerricB! I think I may have been taking the word "surprise" too literally in this context. Obviously the party wouldn't be surprised to discover the bandits or any other type of enemy of the other side of the door, but the surprise mechanic would treat the situation in such a way that it would give the bandits the appropriate edge over the party. That's a much simpler solution than all those possible alternatives I presented.

So.. Put another way, the bandits would get to move or take an action first (using the surprise mechanic) because they have had time to prepare for the party coming through the door.

Does this make sense to everyone else?

Pretty much. Classic D&D would have the party listening at the door to determine if monsters were behind it - if successful, there would not be surprise on either side and initiative would be rolled normally. If not successful, there would be a chance the party were surprised by the bandits (typically 1-2 on 1d6). This edition leaves the surprise status much more up to the DM to adjudicate.

Cheers!

 

[pukunui]

So.. Put another way, the bandits would get to move or take an action first (using the surprise mechanic) because they have had time to prepare for the party coming through the door.

Just to clarify: They would get to do both, as all the surprise mechanic does is make someone who is surprised lose their turn on the first round of initiative. Everyone who isn't surprised gets to take their full turn. This is a departure from previous editions, where there was a "surprise round" in which your ability to act was limited to one action.

 

[Ellsworth]

^ Indeed, pukunui. Thanks for the clarification. An "and/or" in that statement would have been better. Mea culpa.

 

[Hriston]

I roll for initiative as soon as one side is aware of the other, so if it's the sound of battle that alerts the bandits in the next room, I'd roll initiative for them along with everyone else. That way they could choose to join the battle and not let their friends get killed, or hide and try to surprise the party.

edit: Not sure if they would be able to surprise by the rules, however, threat having already been detected in the first room of bandits, but they could most certainly ready an action to set up an ambush.

 

[MerricB]

Just to clarify: They would get to do both, as all the surprise mechanic does is make someone who is surprised lose their turn on the first round of initiative. Everyone who isn't surprised gets to take their full turn. This is a departure from previous editions, where there was a "surprise round" in which your ability to act was limited to one action.

Just a clarification here for historical purposes...

If you had surprise in Basic D&D, you had a full round's worth of actions.
If you had surprise in AD&D 2E, you got a free round's worth of attacks with melee, ranged and magic items, but could not cast spells!
If you had surprise in AD&D 1E, it was odd. You could get 1 or 2 (typically) segments of actions, where you could attack in each segment equal to a full round... and the rate of fire of missile weapons was tripled (whatever that meant in practice, I'm unsure).

Cheers!