Real Life Stats

[genshou]

Wulf Ratbane of Grim Tales fame had this suggestion, if you're thinking about having people run in-game versions of themselves:

Assign them the standard array, and let them arrange their stats as they choose. This way everyone is balanced against each other and you won't hear arguments about what the ability scores really represent.

Ben

The only problem is that not all of us can be represented by a default array. I've spent a year and a half tweaking and adjusting my ability scores and have finally settled on the following:
Str 10, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 18, Wis 15, Cha 15
That would be 2+10+5+16+8+8 for a total of 49 points! That's even more than a high-powered pt.-buy variant would get. So should I just play a "weaker" version of myself in a FANTASY game? Hell no!

For most of the people in our world, playing a character with 25 points spent would result in a "heroic" version of themselves, but remember that some people have higher stats.

Edit: on another note, I have a system for balancing characters via the point-buy rules as they advance in level. It's really cool but never been formally written down. If you're interested I can type it up and email it to you.

 

[fuindordm]

The only problem is that not all of us can be represented by a default array. I've spent a year and a half tweaking and adjusting my ability scores and have finally settled on the following:
Str 10, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 18, Wis 15, Cha 15
That would be 2+10+5+16+8+8 for a total of 49 points! That's even more than a high-powered pt.-buy variant would get. So should I just play a "weaker" version of myself in a FANTASY game? Hell no!

For most of the people in our world, playing a character with 25 points spent would result in a "heroic" version of themselves, but remember that some people have higher stats.

Well, the in-game difference is just a couple of pluses. The key thing is to accept an abstraction that preserves what you're good at without opening the door to arguments. Would your friends agree that those stats are the best representation? Are you willing to open the can of worms that such a discussion would entail?

If I had to rate myself on a standard array, I would give myself S 10, D 8, C 14, I 15, W 12, Ch 13. It's easy to rank my native talents in order from best to worst. If I had to actually determine what bonuses and penalties best reflect my talents, it's much much harder. For example, take the Wisdom stat. I'm very stubborn and hard to influence, but absent-minded and often don't notice details of my environment. Low perception bonus, high will save bonus. Or Charisma: so you interview well and can usually convince people of something. Does this mean you have a high Cha or just high skills? How do you determine what level of real-world effectiveness in personal interaction corresponds to a +1 vs. a +2 stat modifier?

It's just not worth the effort. And while I accept that there are people out there who are objectively 'built' on a higher and lower point-buy than the standard array, I don't think trying to determine what those stats are for a given person is worth the effort.

Ben

 

[Zander]

For instance, there is a 1/216 chance to roll and 18...

True.

...so if you want to say you have an Int of 18, you should be definately the most intelligent person in a random smaple of 216 people.

False. A random sample of 216 people could include several with an Int of 18. It wouldn't be definite unless the sample were infinitely large but this would be greater than the population being sampled!

 

[genshou]

Well, the in-game difference is just a couple of pluses. The key thing is to accept an abstraction that preserves what you're good at without opening the door to arguments. Would your friends agree that those stats are the best representation? Are you willing to open the can of worms that such a discussion would entail?

If I had to rate myself on a standard array, I would give myself S 10, D 8, C 14, I 15, W 12, Ch 13. It's easy to rank my native talents in order from best to worst. If I had to actually determine what bonuses and penalties best reflect my talents, it's much much harder. For example, take the Wisdom stat. I'm very stubborn and hard to influence, but absent-minded and often don't notice details of my environment. Low perception bonus, high will save bonus. Or Charisma: so you interview well and can usually convince people of something. Does this mean you have a high Cha or just high skills? How do you determine what level of real-world effectiveness in personal interaction corresponds to a +1 vs. a +2 stat modifier?

It's just not worth the effort. And while I accept that there are people out there who are objectively 'built' on a higher and lower point-buy than the standard array, I don't think trying to determine what those stats are for a given person is worth the effort.

Ben

Actually, these numbers came from both myself and my gaming group. We're all very keen on the idea of using our own ability scores to make heroic versions of ourselves, even the ones that don't have particularly heroic scores. And we factored skill ranks into all of this, though my skills as a D&D character are obviously different than what my skills would be in the real world (as a D&D character, I have no use for Computer Use, Drive, Pilot, or Repair). For example, I've always had a slight knack for intimidation, but through a great deal of introspection I realized this is like Appraise–I have natural talent (represented by an ability score) but no real training or other focus in the area. Not to mention, it pales in comparison with other Charisma-related talents I have that are best covered by Diplomacy and Gather Information, not to mention skills related to other ability scores that I show an amazing level of ability in, namely Balance, Hide, Knowledge, Move Silently, Listen, and Spot.

I understand that it just won't work as well for everyone as it does for me, but that's no different than the random ability score generation that is the standard for the rules.

And don't downplay the in-game difference between 25 points and 49 points, especially with one ability at 16 and the other at 18. That's a HUGE difference! On the Upper_Krust CR scaling system and comparing to 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8, that's a CR difference of 1.5! Note that Upper_Krust's CR systsem functions differently than the RAW when it comes to Encounter Level, but that 1.5 is still a hefty modifier that reflects the fact that I've got better stats than expected by many of the challenges I'd be faced with as an adventurer. Just think of how frightening I'd be as a Gestalt Monk/Wizard. Luckily I ain't Lawful by any means

 

[Umbran]

INT is easy, since IQ testing directly measures Intelligence as the concept is commonly understood (brains/smartness/quickwittedness).

Ig. No it doesn't. Beyond this point we get on the verge of politics, so I won't go farther. But as an educator, I have to strongly disagree with the above statement.

 

[fuindordm]

Actually, these numbers came from both myself and my gaming group. We're all very keen on the idea of using our own ability scores to make heroic versions of ourselves, even the ones that don't have particularly heroic scores.

So what's the spread in point-buy equivalents for all the players at your table?

Ben

 

[Mercule]

So what's the spread in point-buy equivalents for all the players at your table?

Well, most of my group is about a 56 point buy, but we're all the results of a 1,000 year eugenics cult centered around fulfilling a few obscure prophesies. Now that the millenium has passed, we've got nothing better to do than game, though.

 

[genshou]

So what's the spread in point-buy equivalents for all the players at your table?

Ben

I couldn't tell you without access to their character sheets (now 450 miles away). But meh... anyway, aside from my best friend and I, it was mostly high mental and low physical (other than the 6'4", 270 lb. player with at least average everything and a ridiculous Str and Con). There's a reason why they're gamers instead of football players or gymnasts. Most of 'em had horror stories from PE class

Most of us did have a high Charisma, though. Maybe that explains why we were so good at getting females involved in the game :-?

 

[WayneLigon]

I would be very wary of tracking the Intelligence stat to a modern IQ test. (1) We still don't know much about how intelligence really works or even what it is, so the tests just are not that good yet. (2) unless you've undergone several batteries of different IQ tests coupled with other examination methods, you've never had a real measurement of your IQ done. Taking the standard IQ test once is virtually meaningless unless it's part of a battery of tests done over a period of time administered by professionals. So, unless you actually have had this done (far fewer people have than think they have) using any form of real world test score is only a starting point.

And how in the world are you going to measure Wisdom or the 'Force of Personality' part of Charisma?

 

[Rel]

And how in the world are you going to measure Wisdom or the 'Force of Personality' part of Charisma?

I need only look back at decisions I've made in my past to see that my Wis was a bit low (probably an 8). But I'm older now so I think I'm up to a 10.

As for the Charisma thing, c'mon...it's ME! <--Note my dazzling smile!