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Real world myths and legends: Who's Epic Level?
- Thread starter ColonelHardisson
- Start date
Frostmarrow
First Post
hong said:
I'm sure you are right, but I'll persevere
John Rambo in Rambo III is epic. He takes on an army on his own and wins. The interesting thing about Rambo is how we can see his development through the three movies. In First Blood he is a war veteran from the special forces. I'd say around 10th level ranger at this time.
In Rambo - First blood II the colonel finds Rambo in prison. Rambo is sent into the jungles of Vietnam to free some POWs. I guess Rambo has added levels of barbarian or fighter. He has most certainly added to his already formidable Strength. Smashing rocks with a sledge tends to do that.
Conan is on the verge of becoming epic. Take a look at http://people.ne.mediaone.net/adilbrand/conan.htm for a great presentation of Conan through twenty levels of barbarian, rogue and fighter! (Complete with crossreferences to the short stories.)
Swedish agent hero Carl Hamilton (by Jan Guillou) is probably epic as well. There are ten books written about this character and just for starters: Carl Hamilton has completed SEAL-training five times. Yes, the US kind with hell week and all. He solves murders, assassinates spies, blows up military installations and is fighting a vendetta with the Sicillian Mafia. All his friends and relatives bites the dust though. 7 steps removed.
He was voted man of the year by Time magazine and singelhandedly, armed with a plastic knife, killed all the terrorists on an Air France flight - which earned him the Honor Legion. Whilst on decorations Carl Hamilton has received the finest medals from the Russian, American, Norweigian, German, Swedish, French, Italian and British governments.
Carl Hamilton is a millionaire, doctor in computers, a handball player of professional skill and a former member of Clarté - a communist society. He is also a kustjägare (coastal ranger, close to SEAL). Hamilton is a worldclass marksman and prefers the Beretta 92. But the books are more about international politics and dilemmas than the character...
***SPOILER WARNING***
Carl Hamilton is also a murderer on a private level. He accidentally kills a lover with a steak knife early in his career. She made a sudden move and he promptly cut her head off.
Later on he starts to murder lots of people in and around Sweden serial-killer style on his own time. It turns out that all the people he murders are traitors of an oppressed people in the middle east.
His body count is well above a hundred including professional and private murders.
When all friends and relatives and wife's relatives and dog has been killed by the mafia Carl assumes a new identity and is living out a peaceful existance in California.
***SPOILER OFF***
Cheesy? Well then you should hear about Jan Guillou's new character - Arn, templar knight. This guy a beats Ivanhoe in a swordfight with ease. But that's another story.
Last edited:
Crom and His Devils
First Post
Re: Re: Beowulf *not* outclassed by Sigurd
Well, you gotta take into account that Beowulf was an old man when he fought the dragon, and being a fighter/barbarian type, those -6s to Str, Dex, and Con are gonna hurt his performance big time. I imagine he failed some saves that wouldn't have bothered him in his youth.
S'mon said:
Well, you gotta take into account that Beowulf was an old man when he fought the dragon, and being a fighter/barbarian type, those -6s to Str, Dex, and Con are gonna hurt his performance big time. I imagine he failed some saves that wouldn't have bothered him in his youth.
Re: Re: Re: Beowulf *not* outclassed by Sigurd
Good point, although he was still in good shape so presumably at the peak of his career level-wise. You reckon it took barbarian rage to rip Grendel's arm off? I was just wondering today why D&D trolls are so much the exact opposite of Grendel - easy to hurt, but hard to hurt permanently. Grendel's skin was immune to weapons but he bled to death after losing his arm. Plus he had acid blood, while D&D trolls are vulnerable to acid. Kind of a mirror-universe thing.
Crom and His Devils said:
Good point, although he was still in good shape so presumably at the peak of his career level-wise. You reckon it took barbarian rage to rip Grendel's arm off? I was just wondering today why D&D trolls are so much the exact opposite of Grendel - easy to hurt, but hard to hurt permanently. Grendel's skin was immune to weapons but he bled to death after losing his arm. Plus he had acid blood, while D&D trolls are vulnerable to acid. Kind of a mirror-universe thing.
NiTessine
Explorer
From the Finnish mythology...
Väinämöinen, a bard with some serious epic levels.
Louhi, an evil bard with some equally epic levels.
The smith Ilmarinen, who banged together what I count as a major artifact, the Sampo. I think that would make him an epic-level expert.
Joukahainen and Lemminkäinen, I think, wouldn't be epic. Joukahainen maybe 15th-level fighter/bard, while Lemminkäinen would be pretty low. He is way out of his league, there.
Antero Vipunen, stone giant bard/Loremaster. If Väinämöinen went to him for new spells, that would make him, like, powerful, right?
And then there's Iku-Turso, son of Äijö. He'd either be an epic monster, or an aquatic tarrasque.
Väinämöinen, a bard with some serious epic levels.
Louhi, an evil bard with some equally epic levels.
The smith Ilmarinen, who banged together what I count as a major artifact, the Sampo. I think that would make him an epic-level expert.
Joukahainen and Lemminkäinen, I think, wouldn't be epic. Joukahainen maybe 15th-level fighter/bard, while Lemminkäinen would be pretty low. He is way out of his league, there.
Antero Vipunen, stone giant bard/Loremaster. If Väinämöinen went to him for new spells, that would make him, like, powerful, right?
And then there's Iku-Turso, son of Äijö. He'd either be an epic monster, or an aquatic tarrasque.
Re: Re: Real world myths and legends: Who's Epic Level?
Good point - Odysseus could well have more levels than Achilles, say, even though he's not such a good fighter, because he has lots of Rogue levels. Diomedes probably has the best combat stats (straight Fighter heavily min-maxed), while Achilles (Fighter/Barbarian?) has his immmunity-to-everything munchkin power, with one fatal flaw.
Upper_Krust said:Hi Colonel Hardisson mate!
Well obviously Hercules is the big boy on the block.
But looking beyond him the reason I chose Odysseus is because he is the most multi-faceted of the remaining greek heroes. His adventures are the most extensive so he could well be the most experienced!?
Good point - Odysseus could well have more levels than Achilles, say, even though he's not such a good fighter, because he has lots of Rogue levels. Diomedes probably has the best combat stats (straight Fighter heavily min-maxed), while Achilles (Fighter/Barbarian?) has his immmunity-to-everything munchkin power, with one fatal flaw.
Epic Cheese
A problem with discussing 'epic' literary & movie characters is that a lot of them are so badly done (Rambo) or deliberately cornball (Snake Plisken) that they lack the necessary suspension-of-disbelief factor. Characters who can actually make you _believe_ they're capable of their Epic feats are much rarer, and largely confined to mythology & real-world history.
Oh, yeah - I guess Judge Dredd is epic. But not the Stallone version.
A problem with discussing 'epic' literary & movie characters is that a lot of them are so badly done (Rambo) or deliberately cornball (Snake Plisken) that they lack the necessary suspension-of-disbelief factor. Characters who can actually make you _believe_ they're capable of their Epic feats are much rarer, and largely confined to mythology & real-world history.
Oh, yeah - I guess Judge Dredd is epic. But not the Stallone version.
BiggusGeekus
That's Latin for "cool"
I'm not sure that I'm a big fan of superheros being epic. It sort of deteracts from the accomplishments of men and women who very well may have lived. Of course, on the other hand, I'm about to nominate Paul Bunyan.
My nominations from the USA that I don't think were mentioned:
Molly Pitcher (Commoner 10/Expert10/Fighter3)
Paul Bunyan (Ranger 22 - his spellcasting abilities are replaced with a "giant" template).
Johnny Appleseed (Ranger 10, Druid 12 - no spellcasting abilities)
John Henry (Fighter 22 - exceptional STR and CON)
My nominations from the USA that I don't think were mentioned:
Molly Pitcher (Commoner 10/Expert10/Fighter3)
Paul Bunyan (Ranger 22 - his spellcasting abilities are replaced with a "giant" template).
Johnny Appleseed (Ranger 10, Druid 12 - no spellcasting abilities)
John Henry (Fighter 22 - exceptional STR and CON)
Re: Uh guys
I think it's okay to say "he could do X, therefore he's Epic". I agree it's not a good idea to argue the reverse: "He never did X, therefore he can't be Epic".
Eg Gandalf pretty clearly can't Fly or Teleport. However judging by the books neither can anyone else on Middle Earth, Greater Gods included (except those with wings). So claiming that means Gandalf is under 5th level Wizard is silly. The power just doesn't exist in that setting.
Darklone said:
I think it's okay to say "he could do X, therefore he's Epic". I agree it's not a good idea to argue the reverse: "He never did X, therefore he can't be Epic".
Eg Gandalf pretty clearly can't Fly or Teleport. However judging by the books neither can anyone else on Middle Earth, Greater Gods included (except those with wings). So claiming that means Gandalf is under 5th level Wizard is silly. The power just doesn't exist in that setting.
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