really general question about Sneak Attack

[Olaf the Stout]

The 2 easiest ways for you to sneak attack are:

1. Attacking first. If you win initiative and attack the enemy they will be flat footed and therefore sneak attackable (there are some exceptions to this). As others have said, if you hit them with a bow/crossbow within 30 feet you can still get your sneak attack damage without the risk of ending your turn standing next to them.

Rogues generally have good Dexterity. That, combined with your Improved Initiative means that you should have an initiative modifier around +6 to +9. That means you should be going before the baddies more often than not.

2. Flanking. Provided you can get some teamwork happening with the party melee specialists (Fighter, Barbarian, Paladin, possibly Cleric) flanking situations shouldn't be that hard to set up. Tumbling into a flanking position may be necessary sometimes but, even at low levels, this shouldn't be too hard for a Rogue with ranks in Tumble.

There are other options, such as Feinting in Combat, grappling or spells such as Grease but attacking first and flanking are the easiest 2 ways to be able to sneak attack.

Olaf the Stout

 

[Runestar]

Your rogue can take adaptable flanker (PHB2) and wield a spiked chain to flank by himself (by standing adjacent to a foe and designating the opposite square). Though this will work only on foes occupying a 5-ft square, and is fairly feat intensive...

And if the wizard can somehow blind the foe, say via glitterdust...

 

[Constance Clochard]

The worst thing that can happen to a rogue is getting a single sneak attack off and then being exposed to a retaliatory full attack from a combat monster. (That's probably leading cause of death for rogues.

Yep, been there done that.

As others have said, if you hit them with a bow/crossbow within 30 feet you can still get your sneak attack damage without the risk of ending your turn standing next to them.

Actually, I do end up standing next to them: when they move the 30 feet to attack me on their turn! Been there done that.

It's sounding like most of my "problem" is lack of teamwork! I'm usually taking on a foe alone.
If I'm getting a SA with a Ranged Weapon from 30ft I need to make sure a Tank or a Spellcaster is also going to target the same foe hopefully before the foe gets to move/attack me! This doesn't happen often because the foes are usually more than 60 feet from the group when inititave gets rolled. I'm not always in a position to move to within 30 feet AND get in an attack.
With that kind of distance the SpellCasters do their thing while the Tanks take off i a run to an engage the foe, it usually takes me an extra round to get into flanking position and by then the foe is toast.

Ya all have given me alot to think about when deciding what to do at 3rd Level. Hopefully, I'll get to eviscerate something soon.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

It sounds like the real problem is the DM is letting the casters/archers in the party blow everything up from a safe distance before it gets to be a threat. Which is fine some times, but not most fights. Have you guys ever been ambushed? Ever kicked in the door in a cramped dungeon where it's too tight to safely toss a fireball and the enemies are girded up and waiting for those hinges to break? Do you ever fight enemies that can outshoot the party, forcing you to take the fight to them?

I don't understand what you said about the tanks taking off. Are they somehow reaching the enemies faster than you?

But yeah, rogue generally needs some help from a teammate or two to be most effective. You can generate teamwork with yourself, but it takes longer to do and often requires gaining more levels first (like using UMD to self-buff with invisibility, for example) and significant monetary investment in magic items. If your game allows more than core, like Spell Compendium, Magic Item Compendium, and Tome of Battle in particular, there are a lot more options to "do-it-yourself." Complete Adventurer, Complete Scoundrel, and some other books also have some options of use.

 

[Jeff Wilder]

It takes a careful balance, but IMO one of the best things about a rogue is the ability to scout, especially at low levels. ("Balance" because it becomes all too easy to hog the DM's time, and IME the player often has to be just as careful not to allow that to happen as the DM does.)

While remembering that Hide doesn't make you invisible to stuff with darkvision or other enhanced perception abilities, you can otherwise Hide in shadowy illumination. (That leads to another "pet peeve tangent" ... rogues not being able to sneak attack in shadowy alleys. Buh?) Or by using cover.

So, you might scout ahead of the group 40 or 60 feet, especially if you have darkvision or low-light of your own. You can confer with the group whenever there's a choice of paths to follow. When you find the bad guys, you can leave marks for the group and use Hide and Move Silently to set yourself up within 30 feet for a sneak attack. Then you wait to launch your attack until your buddies storm the castle.

One of the very few things I actively dislike about Pathfinder is that they've amped the rogue to where he's a combat machine, rivaling and almost certainly exceeding the fighter in the ability to take down most foes. (They've given the rogue more HPs, expanded what he can sneak attack, and -- worst of all -- given him a combat feat every other level, just like the fighter. Better, because the rogue has extra nasty options.) The reason I dislike this is that it's taken a lot of the "sneaky" and "mobile" out of the rogue's combat tactics.

In 3E, you definitely need to use sneaky and mobile. That, IMO, is the fun of the rogue in combat.

 

[Constance Clochard]

Have you guys ever been ambushed? Ever kicked in the door in a cramped dungeon where it's too tight to safely toss a fireball and the enemies are girded up and waiting for those hinges to break? Do you ever fight enemies that can outshoot the party, forcing you to take the fight to them?

No, No, and No. Those tactics would be the norm with the other group I game with (another group playing a highly modified but with quite abit of 3.x feel to it version of AD&D). I joined the start up 3.5 group because I felt it would be fun and I could "report back" to the Old Fogeys in the other group with some first hand experience. At this point I'd think the Old Fogeys would have a blast with the 3.5 version - but they are old and I fear they are so deeply in a rutt all you can see is the tops of their heads.
I need to work on them.

I don't understand what you said about the tanks taking off. Are they somehow reaching the enemies faster than you?

Yes, the Tanks do a double move (or quad move) to get to the foes ASAP and take whatever gets dished out to them.
I don't really want to be there and get caught in the dishing out of damage by the foes - and I don't think I can tumble tumble through it if I do more than a move (I need to check that). So that means I set up moving through the "line" during the next round. Unfortunately, at that point the DM may have given me my very own personal foe that I need to deal with - so I can't finish out my plan to Flank one of the foes a Tank is engaging. At some point in all of this someone is usually coming to my rescue.

(like using UMD to self-buff with invisibility, for example)

UMD? Use Magic Device?

 

[Constance Clochard]

So, you might scout ahead of the group 40 or 60 feet, especially if you have darkvision or low-light of your own. You can confer with the group whenever there's a choice of paths to follow. When you find the bad guys, you can leave marks for the group and use Hide and Move Silently to set yourself up within 30 feet for a sneak attack. Then you wait to launch your attack until your buddies storm the castle.

Actually, the last game night I took the point as I've got the best spot (and the whole move silently and hide thing going on). Maybe the DM just has it out to get me - I failed a roll (don't even know which one!) and got wholloped on by the bad guys so fast my head spun.

I have to admit the 3.5 group is way more combat oriented than my usual group (not that we don't kill things or risk our lives - there's just usually more set up/roll playing/tension buildup than "let's go find something to kill!"). In the other group, we once worked ourselves into knots of tension and expectation only to burst into a room where a dog was cleaning up the remains of the foe's dinners (and making a bit of noise doing it!). The DM claims he wasn't expecting that to happen but just let us run with it. It was memorable and it's been a running joke since then.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

No, No, and No.

Well, if most combats follow the same formula, it stands to reason certain classes will often excel and others won't. It's a shame, variety's good for lots of reasons aside from balance. As a Rogue, you're still better off to adapt to the situation than any other non-caster. Try and find useful low level spells to use off of wands and scrolls in combat, ask the DM to let you scout (and actually have scouting be advantageous, and not "damnit, the rogue ran into trouble and we have to rescue her again!") ahead for recon, and maybe invest more in social skills to be strong in town settings, if the game isn't total hack and slash.

Yes, the Tanks do a double move (or quad move) to get to the foes ASAP and take whatever gets dished out to them.
I don't really want to be there and get caught in the dishing out of damage by the foes - and I don't think I can tumble tumble through it if I do more than a move (I need to check that). So that means I set up moving through the "line" during the next round. Unfortunately, at that point the DM may have given me my very own personal foe that I need to deal with - so I can't finish out my plan to Flank one of the foes a Tank is engaging. At some point in all of this someone is usually coming to my rescue.

Don't play the DM's game of one-on-one duelling. You're not a Paladin, screw honorable combat. Rogues in battle are social darwinists - find the weakest or most imperiled creature around, and "assist" natural selection. By all means step in and double team on whatever the Fighter started dancing with, then move on to the next victim together. You may in general want to ask the group to try using some more team work, though it may be impossible. My friend had a party of demons, and they screamed bloody murder if anyone attacked the enemy they "called," always insisting on splitting up for individual glory. At least in their case, it was mostly due to RPing, and not player preference.

UMD? Use Magic Device?

Yes. It gets tiring for me to type it out all the time. Seriously, though. Once you can get a +19 or so mod, it becomes the best rogue class feature by far. Even more so if your DMallows you to take Skill Mastery with it (you technically can't by RAW, unfortunately).

 

[irdeggman]

Yes, the Tanks do a double move (or quad move) to get to the foes ASAP and take whatever gets dished out to them.
I don't really want to be there and get caught in the dishing out of damage by the foes - and I don't think I can tumble tumble through it if I do more than a move (I need to check that). So that means I set up moving through the "line" during the next round. Unfortunately, at that point the DM may have given me my very own personal foe that I need to deal with - so I can't finish out my plan to Flank one of the foes a Tank is engaging. At some point in all of this someone is usually coming to my rescue.

Use the delay action and don't move until after the tanks do. That way you are in flanking position quicker. Now if you have to do a full move action things are different - but the tanks should have slower movement (the side effect of heavier armors) so that should mitigate some of the distance you need to cover.

 

[Herzog]

You can go for the Crossbow Sniper feat (PH2) to increase your sneak attack range with the crossbow to 60 feet.
You could also go for Deadeye Shot feat (PH2) (although that has some ranged combat feats as requirements) .
The last one allows you to ranged sneak attack opponents that are in melee with your allies:
If you ready a ranged attack to occur when an ally strikes a particular target, and your allysucceeds, that target loses his Dexterity bonus to AC against your attack (thus allowing you to add sneak attack damage).


With both feats, you can add sneak attack damage to opponents up to 60' away. How's that for keeping out of harms way!