Reaper to produce pre-painted Plastic minis - Non-random

[rgard]

I don't know about anyone else, but as a european gamer, ebay might as well not exist. There are two reasons for this. The minor one is that quite a few miniatures sellers don't ship worldwide. The big reason is that shipping from the US seems to start at about $5 for a single (and up to about $20 for a couple of dozen miniatures.)

Too rich for me. At those costs I might as well buy a few more random boxes. (Or, rather, use the minis I have. "As you can all plainly see, this Orc with a greataxe is actually an elf with a bow." ;-)

/Jonas

Hi Jonas, one problem I had with shipping overseas was the lack of delivery confirmation with the United States Postal Service (USPS.) The cheapest way to get a figure to the UK is with the USPS. UPS air and Fedex are I think at minimum $15 to ship to the UK. You can ship the same with USPS for about $5. UPS an Fedex do delivery confirmation so the seller/shipper is protected if the buyer says it never arrived. USPS is better for shipping cost wise, but as a seller I can't prove it got there.

Case in point, Christmas 2005, I mailed packages all over the world to folks using USPS. One guy in Australia and one guy in the UK claimed they never received their ebay win and filed a claim through paypal. I couldn't prove the packages arrived and paypal reversed the payment. So I was out the item, the shipping and the ebay fee for selling it.

Now I don't even bother offering shipping outside the US. Occasionaly a non-US buyer will ask about shipping to where ever. I respond with the UPS/Fedex rates and why I ship that way. Of course I never hear from the individual again.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[rgard]

So, if Reaper so desired, could they not make minis of monsters straight from the SRD? I recall Ryan Dancey saying some months back regarding how surprised he was that nobody used the SRD for exactly that purpose.

They don't really have to use the SRD. An orc is an orc of course of course. The Reaper minis aren't DDM tournament legal so why bother going that route? I think most gamers are clever enough to understand that the Reaper version of the Mind Flayer (called something else Bal...I forget the name) is intended to be a Mind Flayer.

For those that use the DDMs for regular rpg play (I do, especially the cards for quick reference) I can use a Reaper version of the critter and download the DDM card from the WotC site, print it and I'm good to go!

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Darrell]

I don't like plastic, I don't agree with any of your assessments about the alleged superiority of plastic, I won't use plastic, and that's that. So, sorry, no my hobby isn't "changing" it is going to go away or at the very least be negatively impacted by this in some fashion.

Fine. I don't like and won't use metal minis, primarily because I don't want to have to paint them (once it was a hobby for me...now it's more of a nuisance). Frankly, even with the randomized nature of DDM (and I'm one of the ones who's been clamoring for just the type of thing Reaper is planning), I found it preferable to get pre-painted plastic minis and trade off for more of what I wanted (There is always someone out there who is looking for more of what you consider cast-offs.); so much so, in fact that I sold off all of my metal minis. Since then, I have found it necessary only once to purchase a metal mini, and that was because my ex-girlfriend wanted a mini of her favorite character, and it was of a type that WotC just isn't going to make (a naked human female, in case you were wondering...). Now, after having sworn off minis altogether, sold off my original DDM collection, and then found myself drawn back into collecting, I have several hundred DDM minis, and a grand total of one metal mini...and it's going to stay that way.

There is, by the way, one arena in which the 'superiority' of plastic to metal is virtually unquestionable...storage. When I was into the painting and collecting stuff, I had to store my minis in padded boxes to keep from chipping the paint if they happened to rub up against each other. The boxes, containing 200+ minis, took up an entire corner of my bedroom. Know where my 400+ DDMs are stored? A big cardboard box. On the top shelf of my closet. Takes up hardly any room at all. For convenience, metal minis can't even compete.

Metal minis may very well be affected by Reaper's decision to make pre-painted plastic minis, but it's not really anything new. Purchases of metal minis fell off at the stores in my general area when WotC released the first DDMs. Today, there are pegs-full of dusty Reaper metal minis languishing away, while the DDM boxes are doing brisk business. Just judging by that situation, I'd postulate that if there are, in your estimation 'tens of thousands' of metal mini painters, then there are probably two or three times that many who purchase and enjoy plastic minis. Why would you find it odd that a company like Reaper would try to move toward the larger market?

On a side note: Before the release of the 'Harbinger' set of DDMs, I had virtually the same type of discussion with a fellow who hated the idea that WotC was going to release DDM in a scale larger than the 25mm 'standard' that he favored. He claimed that WotC (along with GW and Reaper before them) making the larger 28-30mm size mini didn't change the 'standard;' but it does. The 'standard' is what the market will most readily support. Customers can change the 'standard' by voting with their wallets. It may well be that the 'standard' of minis is on the move again, from metal to plastic. The number of gamers who will use plastic minis would seem to vastly outnumber those like you who won't.

I can understand grognard-ism. I'm one of the 'great unwashed' who refuses to sink into the ungodly abysmal mire that is eBay in order to obtain DDMs I desire to possess. I am at the mercy of WotC's random packing and the kindness of DDM traders to get what I'm after. I manage, though.

If word should ever come down the pipe that the Warhammer minis are switching to pre-painted plastic, as well; I'd say the demise of metal minis is at hand. Until then, however, you'll still have metal minis to paint. Reaper will still be making 'em, so will GW and some of the smaller outfits. It may well be that the output of metal minis from Reaper will eventually be lessened, at least somewhat, and plastic pre-paints increased. If so, the majority will have spoken, and the companies will be catering to them. I wouldn't blame them at all.

If, at that time, you still refuse to use plastic minis, you'll just have to deal with it...the same way I have to deal with my decision not to use eBay. C'est la vie!

Regards,
Darrell

 

[rgard]

That's the most important bit of information that keeps me in the "wait and see" mode. People are making assumptions that aren't necessarily accurate. Someone suggested you'll aways be able to find an ogre under $12. What if the ogre is priced higher than $12?

I wonder what price point would change the tune of those enthusiastic? Expecting less than metal minis current prices is certainly being over optimistic. A $3.50 orc is probably as cheap as can be expected. What if they are priced at $7? $10?


While I think that many here are expecting prices below what they will be, I really doubt we'll see "sticker shock" prices. Reaper is enthusiastic about this and would know to be more cautious if they are going to be expensive.

I'm going to predict a price point at about the same level as the metal miniatures, or slightly above that.

I agree...I really doubt we'll have sticker shock. I can't see somebody pricing this out in the business plan and thinking that a $7 orc would sell.

One other factor...while the price of oil (raw material for plastic minis) has gone up since the plastic minis were initially started, there are always improvements to production that will reduce the costs associated with making the mini. Better machinery, better software and maybe better paints.

Of course we'll have to wait until we see the Reaper prices, but I'm not pessimistic about this now.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[rgard]

Fine. I <SNIP>

On a side note: Before the release of the 'Harbinger' set of DDMs, I had virtually the same type of discussion with a fellow who hated the idea that WotC was going to release DDM in a scale larger than the 25mm 'standard' that he favored. He claimed that WotC (along with GW and Reaper before them) making the larger 28-30mm size mini didn't change the 'standard;' but it does. The 'standard' is what the market will most readily support. Customers can change the 'standard' by voting with their wallets. It may well be that the 'standard' of minis is on the move again, from metal to plastic. The number of gamers who will use plastic minis would seem to vastly outnumber those like you who won't.

I can understand grognard-ism. I'm one of the 'great unwashed' who refuses to sink into the ungodly abysmal mire that is eBay in order to obtain DDMs I desire to possess. I am at the mercy of WotC's random packing and the kindness of DDM traders to get what I'm after. I manage, though.

If word should ever come down the pipe that the Warhammer minis are switching to pre-painted plastic, as well; I'd say the demise of metal minis is at hand. Until then, however, you'll still have metal minis to paint. Reaper will still be making 'em, so will GW and some of the smaller outfits. It may well be that the output of metal minis from Reaper will eventually be lessened, at least somewhat, and plastic pre-paints increased. If so, the majority will have spoken, and the companies will be catering to them. I wouldn't blame them at all.

If, at that time, you still refuse to use plastic minis, you'll just have to deal with it...the same way I have to deal with my decision not to use eBay. C'est la vie!

Regards,
Darrell

The 25/28/30mm discussion is interesting. I still don't understand why GW used 25mm as the size for their LotR line. Some may be 26-27mm, but as they were the major contributor to moving the minis business to a larger size, why go back to a smaller size?

Still baffled by that one.

Rich

 

[Darrell]

The 25/28/30mm discussion is interesting. I still don't understand why GW used 25mm as the size for their LotR line. Some may be 26-27mm, but as they were the major contributor to moving the minis business to a larger size, why go back to a smaller size?

Still baffled by that one.

Rich

Oh, I stopped trying to figure out GW long ago. It's been so long since I picked up anything they made that I didn't know they'd used a smaller scale for LotR. Reaper is the only company who makes metal minis I'll even look at (and even then I don't actually buy 'em ).

At the moment, I'm DDM-only...though that may change, depending on the look and (as so many have pointed out) price of Reaper's pre-painted plastic line.

Regards,
Darrell

 

[rgard]

Oh, I stopped trying to figure out GW long ago. It's been so long since I picked up anything they made that I didn't know they'd used a smaller scale for LotR. Reaper is the only company who makes metal minis I'll even look at (and even then I don't actually buy 'em ).

At the moment, I'm DDM-only...though that may change, depending on the look and (as so many have pointed out) price of Reaper's pre-painted plastic line.

Regards,
Darrell

LOL. And the cross-over sales for folks wanting to use the LotR minis in D&D would have been greater.

The GW LotR minis look great next to my old 25mm Ral Partha figs.

Oh well.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[wayne62682]

This is great news, IF they sell these at reasonable prices. My biggest issue with DDM isn't so much the randomness, but the fact that the classifications affect the price. If a figure, even a normal-sized one, is "Rare" then it sells for about $20 if not more. Twenty bucks for a small plastic figure with an amateur paintjob! That's a load of garbage if you ask me. And of course a lot of the figures that would find use and/or are just cool are Rares, so you end up paying a truckload more than the fig is worth just because of this collectable crap (and I feel the same way about CCGs where a single card can be worth hundreds of dollars due to its rarity).

I, for one, am hoping that Reaper kills DDM for good.

 

[thalmin]

The 25/28/30mm discussion is interesting. I still don't understand why GW used 25mm as the size for their LotR line. Some may be 26-27mm, but as they were the major contributor to moving the minis business to a larger size, why go back to a smaller size?

Still baffled by that one.

Rich

It is my understanding that 25mm was a requirement set by the Tolkien estate. That let's GWS off the hook, but shifts the question.
Maybe to use with earlier LotR figures?

 

[Twowolves]

And if thats the case, and to be honest this is the price estimate I'm sort of working on as well (until I hear otherwise) then I think I'll be sticking with DDMs.

I get my minis by buying cases when each set is released, to get a low price per mini, and then I trade and use the secondary market to round out my collection. I find there are always chase rares I want, but also some rares I don't like or need so I've usually managed to trade to get what I wanted.

So, because YOU have tons of cash to burn on cases of minis, AND you have access to a booming secondary market, Reaper is making a mistake by getting into the plastic minis market?

Personally I prefer cheap, random and wide selection. If the Reaper option is not as cheap but not random then as I said, I think I'll be staying with DDMs.

IOW, you prefer to buy dozens of booster packs to get the 6-12 orc warriors, skeleton archers, or zombie hoarde you need for your game? More power to you, but I think you are very much alone in the minority here.....