Reaper to produce pre-painted Plastic minis - Non-random

[Kunimatyu]

So, because YOU have tons of cash to burn on cases of minis, AND you have access to a booming secondary market, Reaper is making a mistake by getting into the plastic minis market?




IOW, you prefer to buy dozens of booster packs to get the 6-12 orc warriors, skeleton archers, or zombie hoarde you need for your game? More power to you, but I think you are very much alone in the minority here.....

You don't quite understand the setup here, I think. Cases are substantially discounted from the list price, and you're assured of getting 1 of every uncommon and 4 of every common, plus half of the rares(assuming no duplicates). It's a steal for the price, assuming you'll use most of it.

It's not economical for someone who just wants their orcs, ogres, and a demon.

 

[crazy_cat]

So, because YOU have tons of cash to burn on cases of minis, AND you have access to a booming secondary market, Reaper is making a mistake by getting into the plastic minis market?

I think you rather overestimate the impact of my personal buying decisions on the sucess or failure of Reapers new minis

What I'm saying is my buying decision will be based on price and quality - and if they are more expensive than DDMs then I probably wont buy them.

IOW, you prefer to buy dozens of booster packs to get the 6-12 orc warriors, skeleton archers, or zombie hoarde you need for your game? More power to you, but I think you are very much alone in the minority here.....

If you want to state it that simplistically as that backs your own pro Reaper and anti DDM opinions then YES, I do.

I'd summarise it better as I buy 2 cases a set, because I can afford to as I have a good job and RPGs are a hobby on which I am happy to spend my money, and these 2 cases get me 192 minis - guaranteed to include 8 of each common (Orcs, Skeletons etc) and 2 or 3 each of each Uncommon, and 24 Rares - which I can keep or trade as I desire. Buying by the case I pay about $1.25 per mini on average (or less than £1.00) including shipping and handling.

There are 3 sets released per year - so I get 180 new mini sculpts each year and many multiples of the ones I need in bulk. The random packaging isn't a plus point that sells them to me on its own merit, its a factor that contributes to the DDM range being cheap and offering me many minis.

If Reaper can sell me minis for less than £1.00 each I'll be impressed - as the metal ones start (unpainted) at £2.50 here in the UK for a normal humanoid sculpt.

Overall, the new Reaper line will suceed or fail based on the quality of the minis, the range available, the price they sell at, how widely they are distributed and actually available, what WOTC and competitor mini producers do, and ultimately how many of them WE (thats all of us gamers in general) actually buy.

If I like them I'll buy them - but I have yet to be convinced.

 

[Thunderfoot]

Crazy CAt - I would like to point out that until the price of pewter went up about three years ago, the average Reaper mini was $1.25 per (I'm not sure of the pound conversion, but I know that's only a few pence (50-75??)). If the plastics are cheaper to produce, (Reaper is VERY concerned about price, they appologized for three months when they had to raise prices.), then I would imagine that, yes, they will be cheaper than metal, even with the paint job. Dwarven Forge does pre-painted resins that range from $1.66 per to $2.25 per, the detail is extremely fine (much better than any WotC scult) and the painting is really good for machine paint. If plastics are cheaper to produce than resins (and I believe they are - does anyone know for sure) then I can't see the figs going for more than $2 per, but I would think that the target price would be in the neighborhood of $0.75 - $1 per (in bundels - individual pieces may be a little higher). If the price is much higher than that, then they will need to make the "rare" sculpts just to make any money.

As for what they can and can't make, they can sculpt anything, the naming is the problem. As an example, currently WotC is 'claiming' ownership of the Illithid name and the Beholder, however, the illithid is a rip off of the Cthullu spawn. It has already been stated that 'treants' and 'halflings' were use to by-pass the 'ents' and 'hobbits' from Tolkiens estate.
Dragons are non-propretary due to historical significance, you don't have to call it a "Blue Dragon", just because it's blue and a dragon, but if you would, there is no way to sue over it, it can't be liscenced in such a manor. As for the Demons and Devils, I am unsure if Balor or Pit Fiend are copyrighted, but Winged Demon or Scary Devil are not and of course Succubuss, Eryines and the like are classical Greek monsters and therefore, fair game.

I think the biggest effect these are gonna have is to deflate the prices of some of the 'rare' minis on the secondary market. Especially on certain monsters that were made 'rare' that are game staples, such as Trolls, Umber Hulks and Carrion Crawlers, that can run between $20-$50 for the Harbinger minis. Carrion Crawlers are usually seen in groups, I as a DM am not trying to pay $100 - $250 just for 5 low level monsters; if Rreaper can offer them at a better price, yes, I'll be getting them - if they can't, then I have to stick with the 'open and hope' method.

And as I said before, I'm still wondering if the recent WotC announcements about 'scenario packs' and 're-issues' are the "Oh crap!" measure taken to lessen the blow.

 

[rgard]

It is my understanding that 25mm was a requirement set by the Tolkien estate. That let's GWS off the hook, but shifts the question.
Maybe to use with earlier LotR figures?

That would explain it. As to why, I don't know. The one two licenses prior to GW's was the Prince August and those were 28mm.

Thanks,
Rich

 

[Glyfair]

I'd say they'll be cheaper than the metal minis. Or maybe the "common" type stuff - orcs, skeletons, that sort of thing - will be quite cheap, and the "rare" types - demons, dragons, and so on - will cost a bit less than what you could expect to pay for your average DDM rare on eBay.

I'd agree if Reaper was releasing unpainted plastic miniatures.

But again, I doubt that they are in trouble. If you can believe those that spoke about the plastic business, making plastic minis is quite an investment. A lot of fixed costs to start it up, and you'll have to sell a lot of minis. A company that has almost no money left can't undertake such a venture.

I agree that they aren't in trouble now and the metal miniature line shouldn't suffer. Maybe the releases will slow down a hair, but they already have a huge catalog.

However, I can see this move as threatening the metal business because, with the big startup costs for plastic, Reaper might be in big trouble as a companyif this fails. I doubt Reaper would put themselves in that position.

Players only need one figure (their character), or maybe as much as half a dozen (a couple of characters, henchmen, familiars, animal companions). DMs need dozens (all the monsters he's going to unleash on the players).

I know this isn't directly on your point, but am I the only DM who feels the best challenge for PC types are other PC types? As a DM I need lots of PC type figures?

 

[Glyfair]

One other factor...while the price of oil (raw material for plastic minis) has gone up since the plastic minis were initially started, there are always improvements to production that will reduce the costs associated with making the mini. Better machinery, better software and maybe better paints.

On other consideration is the learning curve and the quality of the initial set.

WotC had seen the growing pains WizKids went through with the Mage Knight set when DDM was released. However, the Harbinger set wasn't much better than the early MK sets, and was far below the standard of the MK sets that were current when DDM was released. Plus, I understand that WotC was using the same factories that WizKids was at the time (I'm not sure about the accuracy of this statement, but I heard it from a few sources).

WotC clearly learned from WizKids and the inital set, though. The painting of their sets improved very quickly.

If Reaper has the same growing pains, though, this could be a disaster.

And as I said before, I'm still wondering if the recent WotC announcements about 'scenario packs' and 're-issues' are the "Oh crap!" measure taken to lessen the blow.

I think those that believe this have a very bad idea of how far in advance WotC plans its releases. I doubt they had a strong idea Reaper was going to do this when they planned the scenario packs or reissues.

 

[Glyfair]

It is my understanding that 25mm was a requirement set by the Tolkien estate. That let's GWS off the hook, but shifts the question.
Maybe to use with earlier LotR figures?

That's an interesting idea. However, Mithril Miniatures is still in business and seems to be making 32mm figures. (I'll note Mithril is one is one of my favorite miniature lines for D&D).

 

[Lhorgrim]

I love the Reaper metal minis, and I hope they can bring the same style to the non-randomized mini market.

I don't dislike the DDM sets, but the ones I have bought have filled my bookshelves with a great many figures that I don't really need or want. I don't mind the random factor because I like to try to utilize whatever I get, but the ratio of cool stuff to "I'll just put this on the shelf for possible use someday" caused me problems. I stopped getting any of the DDM sets after two boxes of War of the Dragon Queen, because I just didn't have room for all the "spare" minis anymore. If I had bought cases of minis it might have been worth my while to try to ebay the spares, but for the (relatively) small number I have to offer it wasn't worth it. I let my 4 year old play with many of the spares, and when he destroys them I consign them to the abyss(trash bin).

As for Reaper plastic mini quality, I have high hopes. I have seen what Mongoose was able to do with their Battlefield evolution line, and those minis look pretty darn good to me. I know that Mongoose had some mediocre results with some of their Starship Troopers plastics, but they seem to have gotten that resolved. I have my fingers crossed that Reaper has learned from othe people's mistakes.

 

[rgard]

That's an interesting idea. However, Mithril Miniatures is still in business and seems to be making 32mm figures. (I'll note Mithril is one is one of my favorite miniature lines for D&D).

Wow, thanks for posting that link! Those are the Prince August minis I referred to earlier. Thought they were 28mm, but are 32mm!

Cool.

thanks,
Rich

 

[Treebore]

Since I am confident I'll be as happy with their plastic line as I have been with their metal, I'm in for the ride. Plus I am sure their price point will be "competitive". The people at Reaper aren't stupid.