D&D 5E Reasonable Movement and Athletic Feats?

[doctorbadwolf]

I will say that lifting probably needs a better calculation, but unless someone has a vaguely realistic one that doesn’t end up making strong characters feel totally nerfed, and isn’t way more complicated than 5e normally is, I’d rather just leave it as is.

But a better equation that is still simple would be dope.

 

[Charlaquin]

I don’t find them passable. If you aren’t interested in working out something else, why post in the thread? I will never be friendly to “your goal is bad and you should just use what is already there”.

I don’t think your goal is bad, I’m just not understanding what your goal is.You started by claiming that the jumping rules were insufficient because real-life athletes can do better, and then countered arguments suggesting that those numbers are higher because of favorable circumstances adventures would be unlikely to encounter by saying realism wasn’t your goal. Even though your premise was founded on an argument about realism. So, fine, it doesn’t matter that the rules don’t reflect reality. I agree with that sentiment, which is why I find the existing rules great. They’re easy to use and not too bogged down in specifics or trying to simulate reality. That’s evidently not your goal either, so I’m trying to understand what your goal is so I can offer better advise for helping you meet it. Why is it that you want characters to be able to jump higher and farther?

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I don’t think your goal is bad, I’m just not understanding what your goal is.You started by claiming that the jumping rules were insufficient because real-life athletes can do better, and then countered arguments suggesting that those numbers are higher because of favorable circumstances adventures would be unlikely to encounter by saying realism wasn’t your goal. Even though your premise was founded on an argument about realism. So, fine, it doesn’t matter that the rules don’t reflect reality. I agree with that sentiment, which is why I find the existing rules great. They’re easy to use and not too bogged down in specifics or trying to simulate reality. That’s evidently not your goal either, so I’m trying to understand what your goal is so I can offer better advise for helping you meet it. Why is it that you want characters to be able to jump higher and farther?

Because it doesn’t feel right for them to be so far below what a high school athlete can do.
Also, my rogues, Rangers, even Barbarians, are literally never laden with extensive Kit. Why should they be limited by the idea of heavy kit decreasing jump distance?
If the rule is going to work one way regardless of kit, I’d rather it ignore kit than make all characters always move as if weighted down with it.
Realism should only be referenced, beyond basic “up is up and down is down and ranged weapons have limited range” type stuff, to make sure the player characters aren’t being limited beyond reality.

 

[FrogReaver]

Because it doesn’t feel right for them to be so far below what a high school athlete can do.
Also, my rogues, Rangers, even Barbarians, are literally never laden with extensive Kit. Why should they be limited by the idea of heavy kit decreasing jump distance?
If the rule is going to work one way regardless of kit, I’d rather it ignore kit than make all characters always move as if weighted down with it.
Realism should only be referenced, beyond basic “up is up and down is down and ranged weapons have limited range” type stuff, to make sure the player characters aren’t being limited beyond reality.

Sounds like, “let’s make a super complex rule to handle mundane things that rarely matter because a simple rule can never take into account all the variables”

Personally I use the rules as the minimum and if you want to attempt beyond the rule it’s an athletics check. That’s my suggestion. No need for some new rule or formula. May need some DMG advice to explicitly state this but I don’t see a need for more complex than how I handle it.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Sounds like, “let’s make a super complex rule to handle mundane things that rarely matter because a simple rule can never take into account all the variables”

Personally I use the rules as the minimum and if you want to attempt beyond the rule it’s an athletics check. That’s my suggestion. No need for some new rule or formula. May need some DMG advice to explicitly state this but I don’t see a need for more complex than how I handle it.

Adding athletics proficiency to jump distance is super complex?

how do you handle attacks?

 

[Charlaquin]

Because it doesn’t feel right for them to be so far below what a high school athlete can do.
Also, my rogues, Rangers, even Barbarians, are literally never laden with extensive Kit. Why should they be limited by the idea of heavy kit decreasing jump distance?
If the rule is going to work one way regardless of kit, I’d rather it ignore kit than make all characters always move as if weighted down with it.

But this is still an argument founded on realism, which you claim you don’t care about. Can you see why I might find your goals unclear?

Realism should only be referenced, beyond basic “up is up and down is down and ranged weapons have limited range” type stuff, to make sure the player characters aren’t being limited beyond reality.

So... Your goal is to use realism as a baseline from which characters can grow? That’s something I can understand. You’re essentially looking to make characters highly capable at baseline and superhuman at their peak. I could get down with that.

How about taking whatever distances you feel are an appropriate baseline, and setting that as the minimum. Then if players want to exceed that, they can do so with a successful strength check (again, set the DC as circumstances, goal, and approach demand.)

 

[doctorbadwolf]

But this is still an argument founded on realism, which you claim you don’t care about. Can you see why I might find your goals unclear?


So... Your goal is to use realism as a baseline from which characters can grow? That’s something I can understand. You’re essentially looking to make characters highly capable at baseline and superhuman at their peak. I could get down with that.

How about taking whatever distances you feel are an appropriate baseline, and setting that as the minimum. Then if players want to exceed that, they can do so with a successful strength check (again, set the DC as circumstances, goal, and approach demand.)

That’s what I’m doing, yeah. The baseline would be based on real numbers, though, ignoring any fiddly concerns of gear and footwear.

 

[Charlaquin]

That’s what I’m doing, yeah. The baseline would be based on real numbers, though, ignoring any fiddly concerns of gear and footwear.

When you say “based on real numbers,” are you talking about using the distances real-life athletes can jump as your minimum distance, or about using the numbers on the character sheet to calculate how far they can jump?

 

[FrogReaver]

That’s what I’m doing, yeah. The baseline would be based on real numbers, though, ignoring any fiddly concerns of gear and footwear.

Or as I would say - the only way you can get your pseudo real numbers is to ignore the fiddly bits that would make them real.

In this case if I am ignoring the fiddly bits to get to real numbers then the 5e assumptions seem real enough for me for someone that is moderately armored.

All you are doing is an attempted justifying moving the baseline from moderately armored to no armored.

 

[DND_Reborn]

Sure, and I wouldn’t be opposed to an optional rule that limits jumping based on how much gear you have relative to your size, but anything remotely satisfying that doesn’t need up feeling like it goes too far into restriction, would probably be much to complex, so I’d rather just allow the cool thing.

I like proficiency to jump distance, and jumping movement only using half movement. I don’t think I’d use the extended run up, just because it feels a bit more limiting than I’m looking for. Maybe increase the running start by 5ft for jumps over 20ft. Idk, I like things simple. But increasing your approach to gain advantage on a jumping check, Im into. Also, using Checks more when there is danger.

Well, one house-rule we use for jumping I forgot to mention earlier is about jumping in armor. You reduce the distance you can jump by the base AC for armor worn - 10. So, if you wear plate armor, your long jump distance is 8 less (base AC 18 - 10 = 8). It is a simple rule that reflects the difficulty of jumping when you are even a bit restricted by armor. For magical armor, you could say it doesn't affect it if you wish (we don't, but you could of course).

I've updated our DM screen with those new rules in place. I'm meeting with our DM tomorrow, but I think he'll approve as well.

Think your idea for extending the approach distance by a bit is ok, I can just tell you if you "run" only 10 feet, it is basically just 3-4 strides, and you really aren't getting up to speed. I've known jumpers with really long approaches, like over 100 feet. Now, they are accelerating and hitting their stride before going into their run, so it isn't like a full-out sprint before a jump.

Depending on how you handle encumbrance, I would lower the jump distance as much as speed is lowered. So, someone who is heavily encumbered (-20 speed) would have -20 feet on their jump (maybe to a minimum of 5 feet or something).

Personally, I love coming up with systems like this that can "model" real life, but still be fantastic as well.