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D&D 5E Reasons Why My Interest in 5e is Waning

I agree with OP, but am not surprized to see many WOTC supporters come to the thair aid. These are real concerns of people who have looked forward to 5e. It may be be a concern for you but MANY 5e supporters are loosing interest because we have nothing to be interested IN. For the love of god wizards PLEASE tell us what you are planning! PLEASE! I want to give you my money but if you don't tell me what you are doing it's going to be invested elsewhere. Sadly.

I'm sorry, wanting more content is a perfectly valid opinion, but posts like this just don't make any sense to me. Wizards has told us EXACTLY what their plans are. They've announced new board games, MMO expansion news, the Sword Coast Legends game and their RPG books for the first half of 2015. We also know there'll be another adventure path in the second half of the year, though it doesn't have an official release date yet. Maybe there'll be another hardcover player's option book or campaign setting book this year as well, but it's too far away to have announced yet.

Now whether you're happy about the type or amount of products they're putting out, the point is, there's no veil of secrecy or lack of communication on their part beyond the standard, sensible desire to not start talking up products too far out from the planned release date.
 

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My interest in 5E is pretty good. AD&D is still my favorite edition, but 5E comes close. I was looking through the PHB last night and getting excited about some character ideas, which hasn't happened in ages. My only real gripe is with the initiative rules - I've never like 3e/4e style initiative. And I thought the backgrounds were a good idea, but uninspired in execution.

This is a bit of a tangent, but:

I've experimented a lot with different initiative rules in 5E, starting with Speed Factor initiative in the 5E DMG and going on from there. The single biggest problem I have with 5E initiative is that it alters the flow of the game, putting it in a special mode as soon as "roll initiative!" starts and ending only when the conflict is "over." (As a side effect, that discourages taking non-combat actions like palming valuables or having a conversation during combat, because the cognitive focus is on (combat) actions, reactions, and bonus actions. Even moreso if you're doing something that requires more than six seconds to complete.)

My holy grail is to find an initiative system which is functionally equivalent to AD&D-style initiative but plays about as quickly and smoothly as any non-combat action declaration/resolution. Something equivalent somehow to this:

Wizard: "I'll keep my distance while pelting the Slaad with Chill Touch."
Monk: "Azuma drop on the drakon leader."
Sorcerer: "I Magic Missile them all equally."
[action resolution somehow magically occurs in less than a real-time second]
DM: "Monk: the drakon leader fends off your puny attempts to grapple him, but you do at least manage to punch him in the head for 8 points of damage. Unfortunately he also cuts your gut open with two strikes of his longsword for 8 and 11 points of damage, respectively. Wizard: an arrow thunks into you for 6 points of damage [Wizard interjects: "I Shield!"]--okay, an arrow thwangs! off your shield an instant before it would have skewered you, but that distraction doesn't prevent you from attaching a ghostly hand to the Slaad and siphoning away 12 points of damage. Sorcerer, you were right in the middle of choosing targets for your Magic Missile when a Mind Flayer stunned you, and then the Intellect Devourer ate your brain. You're now a zombie. Next round!"

In practice it is never this smooth, but there is no reason in principle that it couldn't be. I'm still looking for ways to smooth the flow without abnegating player agency or disallowing them from rolling their own dice or making my life more complex. Currently I'm experimenting with "combat cards" where they write down their actions (and/or combos) on index cards beforehand, such as "Azuma Drop (grapple + Shadow Jump 60 feet upward, then land on top of grappled enemy)" and can then declare actions simply by pulling a card out of their hand--and I can do the same for the monsters. That serves the dual purpose of making sure that everyone declares an action before any actions are resolved (make sure everyone has a card ready before playing any cards) and also making sure that we don't forget to resolve anybody's declared actions (just see if anyone still has an unplayed card in their hand). Unfortunately(?), last session hardly had any combat in it so this new technique didn't get much play.

So anyway, I agree with you Mishihari, the initiative rules in the PHB leave something to be desired and I'm actively looking for alternatives.
 

Uchawi

First Post
If you are happy enough with the 5E 'as is', and you are not interested in more supplements or additional rules then you should be set. My biggest complaint with 5E is it is too simple, and I don't expect adventures or supplements to fix it. I just like a more complex game, and in that regards digital tools or a PDF is not going to make a huge difference. So if your main complaint is the game is not complex enough, then I don't see anything in the future that will change it short of a generous OGL. Time will tell.
 

If you are happy enough with the 5E 'as is', and you are not interested in more supplements or additional rules then you should be set. My biggest complaint with 5E is it is too simple, and I don't expect adventures or supplements to fix it. I just like a more complex game, and in that regards digital tools or a PDF is not going to make a huge difference. So if your main complaint is the game is not complex enough, then I don't see anything in the future that will change it short of a generous OGL. Time will tell.

What kind of complexity are you talking about? Are you looking for GURPS: Martial Arts-like tactical complexity, or are you thinking more about how simplistic and unrealistic the magic item creation rules are, or the complete absence of spell research rules? I.e. richness of options or depth of ruleset?

I ask because these serve two different interests. A rich ruleset is an aid (of sorts) to DMs, because while it is always possible to invent your own rules/monsters/etc., to do so is time-consuming and error-prone. A tactically-rich set of options, on the other hand, is an aid to tactically-minded PCs (and monsters) to reward innovative tactics over brute power/stats. It would be interesting to know which kind of complexity you're looking for. Personally, I think I'm looking for both.
 

Uchawi

First Post
The complexity would be depth of choices or less abstraction. So you would have different materials for armor, weapons, spells, more classes versus subclasses, or an equivalent of maneuvers for all martial classes to provide the same flexibility as spells. In regards to tactical depth I do not mind more static modifiers versus advantage/disadvantage. I did not like the craziness of 3E and any motion provoking an AOO, but 5E went too far to simplify it.
 

The complexity would be depth of choices or less abstraction. So you would have different materials for armor, weapons, spells, more classes versus subclasses, or an equivalent of maneuvers for all martial classes to provide the same flexibility as spells. In regards to tactical depth I do not mind more static modifiers versus advantage/disadvantage. I did not like the craziness of 3E and any motion provoking an AOO, but 5E went too far to simplify it.

I'm not 100% sure that I understand what you mean by "equivalent of maneuvers for all martial classes", but if you mean something like the AD&D Complete Fighter's Handbook (has a list of different called shots that you can make, at various penalties, to produce different effects like disarming an opponent or temporarily disabling his hand if you do enough damage) I'd be all over that. If you mean something more like specialized feats which you have to build into your character I'd be less excited about it. Either way, I hope you get what you're looking for.

(Also, I loved Frog God's Fifth Edition Foes although I haven't used many of the monsters yet. And I am looking forward to the Book of Lost Spells, which should be out within a couple of weeks.)
 

Fixed. :-D

It's Hasbro (will travel) not WOTC per se. I think the legal wrangling comes from up on (really) high.
WotC is independently managed. It has its own CEO. Hasbro has it's own products and brands to manage. It's unlikely to be that hands on. At worst there's likeky monthly reports and such.
Brand-wide decisions (like the OGL) likely need approval but the handling of individual priducts is likely internal.
 

fjw70

Adventurer
Most of the OP is not a big deal for me, except for the PDFs and lack of adventures.

PDFs are a big deal for me but having the basic rules PDFs help quite a bit.

On adventures converting older stuff is not that hard, but I would still love to have adventures written for 5e with stuff like monster stat blocks embedded in the adventure like it used to be.
 

I wish you and others that feel the same way good luck finding something that fits your needs better.

For me and my group none of these five points are a problem, so we are good with 5e.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. None of these 5 issues are a massive deal for me.

I'd like to know more about what WotC are planning on releasing for 5E and I think if they stay silent for too much longer they will have wasted all the eyes that were focused in their direction after the successful launch of 5E. An OGL would be nice, but nothing listed is a major problem from my perspective.
 

Zaran

Adventurer
Yeah, I'm in the same boat. None of these 5 issues are a massive deal for me.

I'd like to know more about what WotC are planning on releasing for 5E and I think if they stay silent for too much longer they will have wasted all the eyes that were focused in their direction after the successful launch of 5E. An OGL would be nice, but nothing listed is a major problem from my perspective.

The silence is what really bothers me. I honestly think that they are being silent because they aren't really working on anything that is directly related to 5e. It's all looking over licenses, how to attach the seasonal theme to everything and how to shoe horn them into Forgotten Realms. Alice in Wonderland? Really? We need a Crisis of Infinite Realms.
 

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