Recharging magic items??

[ARandomGod]

IMHO, it is possible to "re-charge" some items, by the core rules, without any "stretch" of the rules.

From 3.5 SRD: "For an item that’s worthless when its charges run out (which is the case for almost all charged items), the value of the partially used item is proportional to the number of charges left".

Also from 3.5 SRD: "A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword"

So, a Wand of Magic Missile with 50 charges is valued at 750gp (assume caster level 1 for simplicity).

The same wand with 20 charges is valued at 300gp. Therefore, to "add a new magical ability" - add 30 charges to this wand - you simply do some subtraction. It is a difference of 450gp in market value, which means 18xp and 225 gold pieces.

Or, am I completely off my rocker?

(PS I think it's all stated the same way in 3.0, too, but I don't have the materials handy, to check.)

Edited: math error!

You're partially off. You need to recharge a minimum amount... or else wands are always cheaper than one off items like scrolls. You're getting each for less by buying in bulk. Otherwise what's to stop you from making a wand with one charge? It would be much, much cheaper than to make a potion or a scroll.

 

[irdeggman]

From the Unearthed Arcana House Rule on Page 158 (Note this is pretty consistent with Reynolds' comments)

"If your characte has a favorite staff or wand, chances are you worry about the day when it fianlly expends its last cahrge. The fighter doesn't fret about such things with his sword, so why should you?

To recharge a charged magic item, a character needs a small supply of materials (including the charged item itself). The creator must also meet all of the prerequisites for crafting the item from scratch, including the proper item creation feat. Determine the cost involved by the following proces:

First, pay 10% of the item's base price (not ncluding any costly material components or XP costs) as an up-front cost. This expense reflects the fact that recharging a charged item is more costly than simply constructing a new one. If your charged item has no more than 10% of its charges left, you're almost certainly better off simply crafting a new item.) This expense has no effect on the time required to recharge the item.

Second, determine what percentage of the item's maximum charges (or allowable uses) have been expended. For wands and staffs, subtract the charges remaining from 50, then multiply the result by 2. A wand of magic missile with 19 charges remaining, for instance, has 62% (5-19+31; 31 X 2 = 62) of its maximum charges. For other items with charges or limits on their use, subtract the number used from the maximum number, then divide by the maximum number, so chime of opening can be used 10 times when fully powered, so a chime with 3 uses remaining has 70% (10-3=7; 7/10 = .70) of its maximum.

Third, multiply this percentage by the base price of the item. This expense represents the cost of materials needed for recharging the item. Recharging a magic item requires one day per each 1,000 gp of the material cost determined in this step. Pay an XP costs as appropriate for an item of this (reduced) price."

 

[cordell]

A player cannot create a wand with only 1 charge. The SRD says "A newly created wand has 50 charges." and "Wands are always fully charged (50 charges) when created"

This was not mentioned in my post, sorry. I don't think there is a danger of players "abusing" this by making wands instead of scrolls. The feat is a little less accessible, too - scribe scroll comes free with the Wizard class, and other characters can buy it with caster level 1. Craft wand doesnt come free for anyone, and requires caster level 5.

 

[der_kluge]

Artificer's Handbook , by Mystic Eye Games has rules on recharging charged items.

Items are grouped into a couple of categories: use-per (uses per day), charge (wands, staves), bonus (+1 to this, +3 to that), or continuous (Also includes unlimited use).

The costs for creating a rechargeable charged item are more, and there are formulas for everything. Furthermore, the number of spells to replace charges varie depending on the level of magic in your world. In other words, you can define it however you are most comfortable with.

Check it out!

 

[ARandomGod]

A player cannot create a wand with only 1 charge. The SRD says "A newly created wand has 50 charges." and "Wands are always fully charged (50 charges) when created"

This was not mentioned in my post, sorry. I don't think there is a danger of players "abusing" this by making wands instead of scrolls. The feat is a little less accessible, too - scribe scroll comes free with the Wizard class, and other characters can buy it with caster level 1. Craft wand doesnt come free for anyone, and requires caster level 5.

True, you can't create one with only one charge.
But then, you can't recharce wands either, without house rules.
I was pointing out the *reason* why you can't just pay the per charge cost to recharge a wand. If you had a houserule allowing that, it's not significantly different than a house rule allowing making a wand with only one charge. Any house rule for recharging *should* be significantly different from creating a wand with only one charge, because you're not supposed to be able to do it for balance reason.

Sure, you have to spend a feat for it. But, if you allowed recharging at a one charge per rate, well, that's a LOT cheaper than making scrolls or potions/elixers. Which is what I was attempting to illustrate, and I wanted to point out that this should be taken into account for any potential house rule that would allow recharging of charged items.

 

[ARandomGod]

IMHO, it is possible to "re-charge" some items, by the core rules, without any "stretch" of the rules.

From 3.5 SRD: "For an item that’s worthless when its charges run out (which is the case for almost all charged items), the value of the partially used item is proportional to the number of charges left".

Also from 3.5 SRD: "A creator can add new magical abilities to a magic item with no restrictions. The cost to do this is the same as if the item was not magical. Thus, a +1 longsword can be made into a +2 vorpal longsword, with the cost to create it being equal to that of a +2 vorpal sword minus the cost of a +1 sword"

So, a Wand of Magic Missile with 50 charges is valued at 750gp (assume caster level 1 for simplicity).

The same wand with 20 charges is valued at 300gp. Therefore, to "add a new magical ability" - add 30 charges to this wand - you simply do some subtraction. It is a difference of 450gp in market value, which means 18xp and 225 gold pieces.

Or, am I completely off my rocker?

(PS I think it's all stated the same way in 3.0, too, but I don't have the materials handy, to check.)

Edited: math error!

Of course, without really stretching the rules one could easily add 50 charges to a charged item, as if creating it anew.

Then again, if you look at the SRD, creating an item with 100 charges is nearly synonymous to creating an unlimited use item. But I know a lot of people who wouldn't let you make a staff of unlimited fireballs (or whatever), even at twice the cost (hell, especially at twice the cost. If I had such an item, I'd fireball every round, sometimes for FUN!)

 

[der_kluge]

Hate to sound like a salesman, but the Artificer's Handbook has rules for creating charged items with 10, 20, 35, or 50 charges.

And you can create items with 1 charge. They are called potions and scrolls.

 

[cordell]

>>But then, you can't recharce wands either, without house rules.

Yeah, you can. No house rules necessary. See my first post. It's all in the Core rules, it just isn't called "Recharge". Its called "Add new magical abilites" [to an existing item].

As I mentioned, if the item is a Wand, then you can only increase the number of charges from Fewer_than_50 to exactly 50. Using standard core rules and standard core items, and without using the custom magic item table.

(If your DM allows you to price/create stuff off of the SRD table for magic item creation, you have more flexibility.)

 

[irdeggman]

>>But then, you can't recharce wands either, without house rules.

Yeah, you can. No house rules necessary. See my first post. It's all in the Core rules, it just isn't called "Recharge". Its called "Add new magical abilites" [to an existing item].

As I mentioned, if the item is a Wand, then you can only increase the number of charges from Fewer_than_50 to exactly 50. Using standard core rules and standard core items, and without using the custom magic item table.

(If your DM allows you to price/create stuff off of the SRD table for magic item creation, you have more flexibility.)

I have to disagree withyou. Adding an additional magic property isn't the same as recharging.

As for the intent of the core rules I also have to say that they didn't intend for you to be able to recharge an item - if they did why would WotC have bothered to include the section I quoted from Unearthed Arcana if it was already covered in the core rules? Note this is a WotC product, not Monte's AU.

 

[ARandomGod]

>>But then, you can't recharce wands either, without house rules.

Yeah, you can. No house rules necessary. See my first post. It's all in the Core rules, it just isn't called "Recharge". Its called "Add new magical abilites" [to an existing item].

As I mentioned, if the item is a Wand, then you can only increase the number of charges from Fewer_than_50 to exactly 50. Using standard core rules and standard core items, and without using the custom magic item table.

(If your DM allows you to price/create stuff off of the SRD table for magic item creation, you have more flexibility.)

While I could agree with an interpretation of adding a new magical ability as allowing charges to be added, I disagree with that being recharging. Or to say, I wouldn't allow that rule to be followed to go from fewer than 50 to fifty. On the other hand, I'd possibly allow that to be used to add 50 more charges, either of the same spell or of a different one. That's not significantly different from making a wand in the first place, and therefore seems completely balanced to me. In fact, if anything you're giving up something, because now the GM only has ONE item to remove instead of two if you're getting uppity with your wandness.