OneDnD Reducing ability score impact.

mellored

Adventurer
Ok, so this is going to kill a sacred or 2 cows but it will free up ability scores to be more of what you want. It also helps balance good ability rolls vs bad ones.

Mainly, remove +stat to hit, AC, and saves.

AC is base 15 for everyone.
Attack is +5 to hit, and +3 damage, scaling by level.
DC is 13, scaling by level.
Saves are +0 scaling by level. Proficiency is saves is +3.

*or there about.

These can all be modified by class features (i.e. fighting styles). Fighters getting +1 to hit and AC, Paladins getting +2 to all saves, Sorcerers get +1 to spell DC, whatever. And magic armor and weapons too.

Ability scores are used with class features, fears, and (and skills). Great weapon master can add +Str to damage. Wizards prepare extra spells with Int. Monks can add Dex to speed. Etc..

Ideally, each class should have a light use for at least 2 ability scores.
I.e.
Bards might get to prepared +int spells. +Cha as the minimum of inspiration dice rolls. And one subclasses get +Str to damage while another can use +Dex to move allies around.
 
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SakanaSensei

Adventurer
One of the best ways to squish the effect of stats I've seen is to just compress modifiers. For example, in the X Without Number games by Sine Nomine, the stat to modifier sequence goes like this:

3: -2
4-7: -1
8-13: +0
14-17: +1
18: +2

This way, your stats are still relevant to the things you want to do in the game world (saves, attacks, etc.) without having your min-maxed munchkin being so head and shoulders above everyone else.

You'd have to rework ALL the math of the game, though, and I don't foresee WotC doing something so drastic.
 

The ability scores from BECMI would be the best way to go, but with 1D&D being backwards compatible, it's very unlikely that anything's changing on this front. At best we can hope they try to improve some of the weaker abilities and maybe put a slight nerf on Dex.
 


Ath-kethin

Elder Thing
One of the best ways to squish the effect of stats I've seen is to just compress modifiers. For example, in the X Without Number games by Sine Nomine, the stat to modifier sequence goes like this:

3: -2
4-7: -1
8-13: +0
14-17: +1
18: +2

This way, your stats are still relevant to the things you want to do in the game world (saves, attacks, etc.) without having your min-maxed munchkin being so head and shoulders above everyone else.

You'd have to rework ALL the math of the game, though, and I don't foresee WotC doing something so drastic.
DCC does something similar, though it's a little broader.

3: -3
4-5: -2
6-8: -1
9-13: +0
14-15: +1
16-17: +2
18 +3

Of course, the abilities affect other things as well, such as # of spells known, highest spell level you can learn, etc. But I think it's a similar approach.
 

tetrasodium

Legend
Supporter
One of the best ways to squish the effect of stats I've seen is to just compress modifiers. For example, in the X Without Number games by Sine Nomine, the stat to modifier sequence goes like this:

3: -2
4-7: -1
8-13: +0
14-17: +1
18: +2

This way, your stats are still relevant to the things you want to do in the game world (saves, attacks, etc.) without having your min-maxed munchkin being so head and shoulders above everyone else.

You'd have to rework ALL the math of the game, though, and I don't foresee WotC doing something so drastic.
2e did it too. It wasn't until 3.x that we started seeing anything like the super constrained ultra important attributes that 5e has. Going back to it enhances compatibility rather than creating complications though. Players use the new creak points and values, immediately room has been carves into the system to make magic items a requirement with the gm's choice to award them or not influencing difficulty accordingly rather than trivializing encounters & shattering the boundaries of BA. Monsters use the old breakpoints and numbers listed in their Stat block to preserve the need for magic items.
 


Minigiant

Legend
Supporter
If you minimize ability scores, might as well remove them.

Pre3e AD&D only had ability score to determine what class you were and how good you are the class. 18 for great. 16 for good. 2 16s and you could be a special class.

Would never happen in D&D again officially.
 

aco175

Legend
I'm not sure what the intent is? Sound a bit like 4e where everyone used their best stat to hit and damage. Talk at the table was that is did not matter on how strong or quick you were when attacking- we had wizards being able to think where the bad guy will be and thus attack as well as the fighter and the bard talking his opponent to jump onto his sword.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
What ARE you keeping ability score for? Or rather, where do they add?

It looks like you are keeping it for weapon damage, which is good so as not to create a divide for martials (who normally add) and casters (who do not), but that means it's still important to martials to do the main thing they do in combat - inflict damage.

You have features like Bardic Inspiration that are triggered off CHR - so CHR is still important for them, while for a Wizard who cares about INT? It's not used for DC anymore or many features.

How about having a by-level mod you use for all of these, and just remove ability scores all together.
 
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DEFCON 1

Legend
Supporter
The more bonuses and penalties you remove from the game... the more random chance from the d20 impacts what you can successfully accomplish.

What's the point of being skilled or trained in anything if it's the 1-20 swing from a die roll that ends up being the primary reason you succeed or fail? Heck, this is why the original Proficiency Bonus was changed early in the D&D Next playtest-- originally your PB for levels 1-4 was a +1... and people rightly said you barely got the sense your character was skilled in anything when you were only a single point higher in your checks than if you weren't skilled.

Now that being said... if the real point of the thread is that the game might work better if STR/DEX did not affect offense and DEX did not affect defense (and instead there was another modifier we used instead for attack rolls and AC calculations)... that's a conversation we could have for the future of the game. Rather than adding your STR or DEX ability score to your attack rolls you instead had a completely separate "Attack" ability score that you would add in their place (and thus how strong or agile you were did not impact how skilled you were with a weapon.) Something like that is a feasible house rule and I think is even something original Mutants & Masterminds did in their game.

Won't show up in OneD&D obviously, but is certainly able to be looked at for individual tables or future editions past 2024.
 

mellored

Adventurer
What ARE you keeping ability score for? Or rather, where do they add?
Skills and class abilities.

Though, I guess those things can be done in other ways too. So sure, it's possible to drop abilities all together and still have the same choice points.

Skills can just be +0/+3/+6/+9 depending on proficiency level.

And class abilities can be choice points like fighting style is.

I.e. level 4 barbarians can chose to +damage, +hp, or a feat.
And a level 8 Paladin can chose between +1 to save aura, +1 to hit, or a feat.
Bard 12 might chose between +1 inspiration or +1 to save DCs.

Actually, I like that better. Makes the choices more obvious.
 

Yora

Legend
One of the best ways to squish the effect of stats I've seen is to just compress modifiers. For example, in the X Without Number games by Sine Nomine, the stat to modifier sequence goes like this:

3: -2
4-7: -1
8-13: +0
14-17: +1
18: +2

This way, your stats are still relevant to the things you want to do in the game world (saves, attacks, etc.) without having your min-maxed munchkin being so head and shoulders above everyone else.

You'd have to rework ALL the math of the game, though, and I don't foresee WotC doing something so drastic.
Or you change how ability scores are rolled. Make it 2d6+3 instead of 3d6.
 

One of the best ways to squish the effect of stats I've seen is to just compress modifiers. For example, in the X Without Number games by Sine Nomine, the stat to modifier sequence goes like this:

3: -2
4-7: -1
8-13: +0
14-17: +1
18: +2

This way, your stats are still relevant to the things you want to do in the game world (saves, attacks, etc.) without having your min-maxed munchkin being so head and shoulders above everyone else.

You'd have to rework ALL the math of the game, though, and I don't foresee WotC doing something so drastic.
that lines up closer to 2e and I can't say I would dislike it.
 


Pauln6

Adventurer
The simplest thing is to just apply half the modifier to attack rolls, saves and things that affect saves. However, you would need to take greater steps to keep a lid on stacking. Make it clear that magical bonuses to AC don't stack or possibly limit magic AC bonuses to +1. Monsters struggle to hit as it is.
 

Dausuul

Legend
What ARE you keeping ability score for? Or rather, where do they add?

It looks like you are keeping it for weapon damage, which is good so as not to create a divide for martials (who normally add) and casters (who do not), but that means it's still important to martials to do the main thing they do in combat - inflict damage.

You have features like Bardic Inspiration that are triggered off CHR - so CHR is still important for them, while for a Wizard who cares about INT? It's not used for DC anymore or many features.

How about having a by-level mod you use for all of these, and just remove ability scores all together.
That would be my preference, but let's be honest, the six ability scores are never going to be removed from D&D. They're the 20th-level paladin of cows.

We can, however, hope to see their influence sharply reduced.
 

Mistwell

Crusty Old Meatwad (he/him)
Ok, so this is going to kill a sacred or 2 cows but it will free up ability scores to be more of what you want. o damage while another can use +Dex to move allies around.
You could spin it as more of a return to the roots of D&D, as ability scores didn't used to influence things nearly as much as they do now, and that's the reason 3d6 in order still was functional.
 

leonardozg

Because I'm the DM
I like the idea, but not the execution.
I would like to be able to make a charismatic fighter without being penalized in combat abilities (str, con, dex). I like some ideas presented, specially the one that changes 18 to +3. But I also think a Str 20 figther is a really strong man, and a simple +3 compared to a +1 of a just above average fighter does not give me the feeling that the first one is really strong.
I don't think this is the answer you are looking for, but i think it is better to change your way of playing by changibg the impact combat have in your game. For example: make cha based skills more relevant, or make combat have more permanent consequences.
It is not simple, but just removing ability modifier of combat stats is not an option for me.
 

Horwath

Hero
I have suggestion that simply replaces ability modifier with proficiency bonus in all except ABILITY checks:

 

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