D&D 5E Reducing Power Gaming

[Horwath]

You can also keep 6th to 9th level effects in the game, but make each one a ritual the caster has to find or create in order to cast it, with expensive, lengthy, hard to find components.

You know, make a game out of it.

that may be added as a treasure or as you say a plot hook, but this solution axes default assumption of having 6-9th level spells and with added low level slots, keep the power budget in respect to other classes.

 

[Micah Sweet]

that may be added as a treasure or as you say a plot hook, but this solution axes default assumption of having 6-9th level spells and with added low level slots, keep the power budget in respect to other classes.

It does axe that assumption, but I'm cool with that. It does work best in an OSR style game, I admit. Or you can replace higher level spells with different class features to compensate for lack of consistent high-level access.

Or you can cap all PCs at a lower level, say 12-14, and shift the game into a new phase like domain play.

 

[Horwath]

It does axe that assumption, but I'm cool with that. It does work best in an OSR style game, I admit. Or you can replace higher level spells with different class features to compensate for lack of consistent high-level access.

Or you can cap all PCs at a lower level, say 12-14, and shift the game into a new phase like domain play.

I like the E11 variant.

class progression stops at 11th level, you just dip into Tier3 of play.
after that you can either take a feat or class level of another class(no HP increase)

proficiency is at +4, that gives nice spread of +0,+2,+4,+8 for no proficiency, half proficiency, proficiency and expertise.

and every class gets a nice feature at 11th level.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I like the E11 variant.

class progression stops at 11th level, you just dip into Tier3 of play.
after that you can either take a feat or class level of another class(no HP increase)

proficiency is at +4, that gives nice spread of +0,+2,+4,+8 for no proficiency, half proficiency, proficiency and expertise.

and every class gets a nice feature at 11th level.

That works too. I guess that however you slice it I just don't see a lot of value in very high level play mechanically.

 

[Oofta]

Some people, like me and my players, like high level play. Yes, they're gonzo at very high levels but so are their challenges. A Tarrasque is fun, but what about one that can open dimensional portal to attack enemies who think they're safely out of reach as a legendary action?

But it, like all games, is not for everyone.

 

[Laurefindel]

You can also keep 6th to 9th level effects in the game, but make each one a ritual the caster has to find or create in order to cast it, with expensive, lengthy, hard to find components.

You know, make a game out of it.

That's one of my preferred takes on high-level play. I don't think that that alone is enough to solve the OP's issues, but I know it partially solves mine (although so far it my solution has been simply not to play at levels where PCs have spells 6th-9th level...)

 

[TwoSix]

What are the statistics on people playing D&D that don't like the D&D rules?

Most people I know who are 5e-savvy have some dissatisfaction with certain aspects of the 5e rules (and rarely the same aspects), but generally view it as working well enough to be either their favorite or 2nd favorite version of D&D.

 

[GothmogIV]

Here is another issue I have run into (and could use thoughts on): while the characters have these blizzards of abilities, spells, actions, reactions. bonus actions, etc.---so do the freaking monsters and NPCs! As a DM, I have found it hard to hold all of this stuff in my head while creating encounters and running combats. Not only am I keeping what the characters can do top of mind, but I have to manage what their opponents can do, too. Any thoughts on how to better manage that?

At the end of my last campaign, the PCs were 6th level. As the big show stopper event, I basically made mirror images of each character, complete with weapons, spells, abilities, etc. and said "have at it" and them run the combat against themselves. It was...insane. Just insane.

 

[TwoSix]

I like the E11 variant.

class progression stops at 11th level, you just dip into Tier3 of play.
after that you can either take a feat or class level of another class(no HP increase)

proficiency is at +4, that gives nice spread of +0,+2,+4,+8 for no proficiency, half proficiency, proficiency and expertise.

and every class gets a nice feature at 11th level.

I prefer 10th, since it allows for more variety in character concepts without the need to focus on getting the 11th level powerup, with the Tier 3 upgrade something that can be earned in play.

But otherwise, strong agreement.

 

[FitzTheRuke]

Here is another issue I have run into (and could use thoughts on): while the characters have these blizzards of abilities, spells, actions, reactions. bonus actions, etc.---so do the freaking monsters and NPCs! As a DM, I have found it hard to hold all of this stuff in my head while creating encounters and running combats. Not only am I keeping what the characters can do top of mind, but I have to manage what their opponents can do, too. Any thoughts on how to better manage that?

At the end of my last campaign, the PCs were 6th level. As the big show stopper event, I basically made mirror images of each character, complete with weapons, spells, abilities, etc. and said "have at it" and them run the combat against themselves. It was...insane. Just insane.

That's something that I've been giving a lot of thought to - but I don't quite have the solution yet. You see, I think that 5e Monster Statblocks make the best PC character sheets, but make terrible monsters. The sad thing is, most of the time, the Monsters don't really actually have a lot of abilities and traits - and yet the block is still so huge and wordy (IMO). Much more than it has to be.

Recently (like, mostly yesterday) I started looking at monster statblocks and busting them down. For example, here's my take on the 2024 version of the Ogre:

OGRE (CR2). Lg.CE.Giant.
AC:11 HP:68 Spd:40'
FORT(+6) REF(-1) WILL(-2) PP:8.DV
ACT: Club.10'MA(+6)2d8+4b.
Javelin.30/120'RA(+6)2d6+4p.

(The Fort/Ref/Will is something that Mike Mearls has been doing with 5e Monsters on his patreon. Basically you take the higher of STR & CON for Fort, DEX for Ref, and the highest of INT,WIS, & CHA for Will. (And then Adjust for skill & save proficiencies) You use these new 3 stats for all ability checks and saves. It just shrinks the statblock to a more manageable level). The only thing I effectively skip is languages, but I'm pretty sure that I can guess what those are when it's important.