Reflex/Initiative

[DanMcS]

I think it makes sense to have characters make a reflex save/check for initiative, as opposed to the Dex [+feat] initiative used now. Higher level characters might react faster, characters with good reflex progression too. It works in my head. It actually takes away from Dexterity a bit, because it becomes just a part of the initiative bonus rather than the whole thing.

Bad idea? Talk me out of it?

 

[Viktyr Gehrig]

Seems reasonable. Might reduce the importance of Improved Initiative and improve Lightning Reflexes.

 

[Crothian]

Well, it gives people who are going to be good at initiative becasue oh high dex (Bard, Monk, Rogue) an even better chance to go first.

 

[DanMcS]

Right, but a higher level fighter, who would normally still lose to the first level rogue because of Dex, would have an even or more chance to beat him.

So it exascerbates the difference at equal levels, and does what I want at mixed levels. Hrm.

 

[Crothian]

Right the higher level fighter will have a better chance against the lower level rogue, but think what the high level rogue can do to the lower level fighters. Rogue 4 has a base reflex save four higher then fighter 2. That's a freee improved iniative right there and it only gets worse if as they get farther apart.

 

[DanMcS]

Shouldn't the high level rogue completely flat-foot the low level fighters? Reflex saves represent "ability to dodge attacks", which sounds like reaction time to me.

 

[Crothian]

It's not a bad idea, I'm just throwing out possible problems.

 

[ashockney]

What advantages are gained to the system if you make the change?

* Difference from high vs. low level - how does this improve the game? I would argue it may even deter from it.

* Enhances Rogues ability to win initiative, which is a key advantage for them. - this is a plus.

* Provides a significant advantage to all the monsters who have "all good saves" such as Demons, Devils, and Dragons...I'm sure there are others - I think this might be an unintended disadvantage

* A little easier to track than keeping initiative separately

* What bonuses would stack with Ref save (enhancement bonusest to Dex, resistance bonuses, Great Reflexes Feat, etc.)? - Is this a potential balance issue, allowing people to over-capitalize on this advantage?

The other question to ask yourself is, "Is there any other way to accomodate the benefits, without the disadvantages?" (ie, what about instituting a generic +1/x lvls to initiative for PC's?)

Solely playing devil's advocate here, I think it's an interesting idea.

 

[DanMcS]

Do enhancement bonuses to Dex apply to initiative? If not, should they? I have no idea.

I did think of Lightning Reflexes when I pondered this change- essentially it would double as improved initiative, which is ok; the other enhancement bonuses (frex, what is it, Resistance, level 0 wizard spell, gives a +1 to your next save) could be a problem.

You guys are good devil's advocates.

 

[ashockney]

/shuffles hair to cover horns.