D&D General Reification versus ludification in 5E/6E

[NN]

There is no one word to replace “story”, thats the issue. Use whatever you feel is right. And if you cant find a synonym or phrase to substitute, it means you were waffling in the first place.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

There is no one word to replace “story”, thats the issue. Use whatever you feel is right. And if you cant find a synonym or phrase to substitute, it means you were waffling in the first place.

Okay...that's certainly a hot take. "You aren't allowed to use the word you use, because you never really meant anything by it" is kind of a crappy argumentation technique, because it's not actually taking on anyone's argument, it's policing what diction they're allowed to use for expressing it.

So, in keeping with your request, I will now replace every instance of the word "story" with the accurate and precise phrase "a satisfying sequence of events in which PCs (mine and others') act as big damn hero protagonists, putting their values to the test through challenges, leading to an eventual denouement wherein a conclusion-for-now is reached". I will underline it where I've put it, so you can easily see how such clarity and precision contributes to a really easy-to-read, effective argument. This'll be great!

I really like games that have "a satisfying sequence of events in which PCs (mine and others') act as big damn hero protagonists, putting their values to the test through challenges, leading to an eventual denouement wherein a on-for-now is reached". As in, I don't really want to play a game that doesn't have "a satisfying sequence of events in which PCs (mine and others') act as big damn hero protagonists, putting their values to the test through challenges, leading to an eventual denouement wherein a on-for-now is reached", at least as a significant secondary priority. Yet, at the same time, I don't want things that are perfectly plotted out in advance; I want to see "a satisfying sequence of events in which PCs (mine and others') act as big damn hero protagonists, putting their values to the test through challenges, leading to an eventual denouement wherein a on-for-now is reached" that evolves, something that is both built from our choices and responds to them, rather than merely bearing witness to the DM's unpublished novel. Having played so-called "storygames" like Dungeon World, I know it's quite possible to create structures that support and encourage "a satisfying sequence of events in which PCs (mine and others') act as big damn hero protagonists, putting their values to the test through challenges, leading to an eventual denouement wherein a on-for-now is reached" as play, where play and "a satisfying sequence of events in which PCs (mine and others') act as big damn hero protagonists, putting their values to the test through challenges, leading to an eventual denouement wherein a on-for-now is reached" are the same thing, not play occurring in response to prewritten "a satisfying sequence of events in which PCs (mine and others') act as big damn hero protagonists, putting their values to the test through challenges, leading to an eventual denouement wherein a on-for-now is reached", nor "a satisfying sequence of events in which PCs (mine and others') act as big damn hero protagonists, putting their values to the test through challenges, leading to an eventual denouement wherein a on-for-now is reached" occurring exclusively as a summary of prior play.

Now, if you'd like the actually readable version, click here:

Spoiler: Don't click! It's a tarp! I mean a trap!

I really like games that have "story". As in, I don't really want to play a game that doesn't have "story", at least as a significant secondary priority. Yet, at the same time, I don't want things that are perfectly plotted out in advance; I want to see "story" that evolves, something that is both built from our choices and responds to them, rather than merely bearing witness to the DM's unpublished novel. Having played so-called "storygames" like Dungeon World, I know it's quite possible to create structures that support and encourage "story" as play, where play and "story" are the same thing, not play occurring in response to prewritten "story", nor "story" occurring exclusively as a summary of prior play.

And if you sincerely think that the first paragraph is better than the second, I'm not really sure there's much to discuss here.

 

[Hussar]

There is no one word to replace “story”, thats the issue. Use whatever you feel is right. And if you cant find a synonym or phrase to substitute, it means you were waffling in the first place.

The larger problem is when people insist on adding things to the term story that aren't really there. Story in no way connotes linear or railroad. You do not need a defined ending to have a story - otherwise improv would be impossible.

But, there's a certain slice of the fandom that reads "story" and insists on the most uncharitable interpretation possible in order to "win" arguments over the "heart and soul" of the hobby. It's been going on for decades and it's freaking exhausting.

 

[NN]

"a satisfying sequence of events in which PCs (mine and others') act as big damn hero protagonists, putting their values to the test through challenges, leading to an eventual denouement wherein a on-for-now is reached“

Youve loaded satisfying , hero protagonists, testing values, and eventual denouement onto “story”

 

[EzekielRaiden]

"a satisfying sequence of events in which PCs (mine and others') act as big damn hero protagonists, putting their values to the test through challenges, leading to an eventual denouement wherein a on-for-now is reached“

Youve loaded satisfying , hero protagonists, testing values, and eventual denouement onto “story”

And your point is?

You haven't actually rebutted my argument that your verbiage-policing is unhelpful and distracting, rather than actually contributing to the discussion. Nor have you even remotely responded to the actual arguments relative to the thread.

 

[NN]

Probably