Reigning in the casters?

[MaxKaladin]

I've got a problem. It's actually a quite familiar problem. I had it in 1e and 2e as well as now in 3e. We've gotten up to about 9th level, the casters dominate the scene and the non-casters don't like it. It's not just the damage capacity they have. That's the least of the problems. Its the ability to instantly take out that nasty bad guy insantly with a load of "hold" spells or a polymorph other -- and failed saves come too often. It's the ability to deal with hoards of monsters with low level spells. It's the ability to scry and to magically detect traps and so forth. It's the ability to sneak around invisibly flying and so on. One of the non-casters said he was dreading when the wizard got teleport.

Half the problem is that the casters are dominating combat to the point where the non-casters feel irrelevant. The other half of the problem is that there is virtually nothing that the casters can't do outside of combat that the non-casters CAN do.

In the past, I've always found that this is a signal that the campaign has about run its course and wrapped things up. I don't really want to wrap this game up just now, so I'm trying to find ways to reign in the spellcasters and let the other players feel useful again.

 

[Dark Eternal]

One good method (probably not the best, but 'tis a start) is to increase the number of encounters in a single day. The casters can only cast so many spells in a single 24 hour period; the non-casters can keep going as long as their hit points hold out - which, I might add, keeping the party at combat readiness is a good way for divine casters to deplete those daily spell uses.

Ideally, over time, the casters will learn to conserve their spell resources to deal with things that the non casters can't, rather than trying to use their magic to beat the others at their own areas of specialization - and they should therefore let the non casters handle anything that doesn't absolutely need spells to handle.

It can take some time to pin down the ideal number of encounters to achieve the best results, but with some practice it gets easier.

 

[Alchemist]

Alter your world to low magic, as so many of us seem to be doing. Chop out the highest 3 levels of spells, redistribute the caster progression and take away all the fancy little trinket items. That's where I started.

Vanilla D&D seems to be all about the fantastical monsters that are absolutely undefeatable unless you're some sort of tricked out party with the spells and the gear. Take away those monsters and you take away the need for these spells and items. And you might just be able to squeeze out a world that makes some semblance of sense while you're at it.

 

[Umbran]

Well, no spellcaster can be prepared for everything. If you find your spellcasters are getting good at picking the right spells to prepare each day, it means the DM is gettign too predictable.

Get to know what your spellcasters memorize, and throw in a few encounters where their favorite spells aren't as useful.

 

[Wormwood]

More encounters tends to thin out available firepower, but once spellcasters start using Mord's Mansion to take a day off whenever they feel like it, you're going to have to come up with different scenarios.

 

[Dark Eternal]

The best solution to the Mord's Mansion that I've found for dealing with parties is to use plot elements that make time of the essence. If they choose to squander their daily allotment of spells inefficiently, and then have to camp and 'pump back up', then that's fine. But the world turns on as they rest and rejuvinate, and the consequenses of taking too long to get to their goal can be quite unfortunate...

 

[kengar]

Enemy spellcasters with powerful minions who have the sense to target the mages first. As soon as a caster reveals themselves as fairly powerful by casting higher than a 2nd -3rd level spell. TOP for priority of the bad guys is to take that caster out! Targeted dispels & counterspells, death effects, poisons, raging evil barbarians charging the caster, LE monks sailing through the air at him at move 60' ready to kung-fu his butt, combatants getting in close and AoO-ing every casting attempt, level-draining incorporeal undead sucking away his ability to cast his highest level spells, etc. etc.

You get the idea.

 

[A'koss]

Attrition works pretty well up the point where wizards have loads of magic items (or can make rest stops in the "timeless" Astral Plane).

There are some inherent problems with saving throws, that if fixed, go a long way towards restoring balance for the wizard classes. I've found that you could almost eliminate the stat bonus to the DC of cast spells entirely (but keep the various Spell Focus feats) and game balance comes thundering back - particularly at high levels. That "Save or Die" or "Save or Nerf" magic becomes a lot more managable...


Cheers,

A'koss.

 

[WayneLigon]

How many characters are in the party, and how many are spellcasters?

Look at the counterspell rules. Look over the rules on casting in combat. Remember those Concentration checks.

Remember that eight hours of restful calm the arcane casters have to have to regain spells.

Remember that they can give out damage but not take it.

At their level, start hitting them with some Spell Resistant creatures.

Remember that 1000 gp focus for the Scrying spell. Remember that it takes 1 entire hour to cast that spell. Remember that anyone near the scrying sensor gets an Int check at DC 20 to notice it.

Just some things to remember.

 

[MaxKaladin]

The party has:

9th level Cleric of Orus (homebrew god) with Knowledge and Magic domains.
8th level Wizard
8th level Rogue
9th level Ranger (Alt-Ranger with no spells) -- Mostly an archer.
8th level Barbarian -- Has a really big axe.
7th level Rogue

Not all of them are present every session.

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I'll definately be trying some attrition. A lot of their fighting lately has been fending off thieves and assassins. (Long story short, they hold most of the keys to an ancient treasure that several people are trying to get AND they work for a powerful senator with equally powerful enemies who keep trying to kill him).

I've thought of sending in critters with spell resistance. Is there a list I can check somewhere. That would be handy.

I am aware of AoOs. Getting folks in melee with the casters has helped when they can. Unfortunatly, the wizard has a habit of flying around all the time. That hinders things. I wonder if monks can flying kick someone in midair?

I really need to take advantage of counterspells and dispels more. Mostly I use dispels after the fact, as does the party.

The wizards current favorite tactic: Find the enemy mage or nastiest opponent if no mage and polymorph other him into a snail, goldfish, turtle or other basically helpless critter. As a DM, this is getting really damn old. I did it to him once, I admit, now he does it every time. Even my nasty ogre fighter with the super-fort save failed and got turned into a jellyfish. Now, he's found feeblemind in the PHB and is gleefully laughing over the havoc he will wreak on his enemies. I've warned him that I have not been using this spell against them because its so nasty but I will use it if he does. We'll see what happens.

The Cleric's current favorite spell: Cloak of Righteousness from Relics and Rituals. Every enemy has to make a save or be blinded for the duration of the spell.

They still manage to be annoying with scrying even with the cost and the time limit. Spell component costs are the only reason the wizard isn't walking around stoneskinned 24/7.

I suppose I'm going to have to start designing enemy parties specifically around neutralizing the casters so the melee / archery types can have it out.