Parmandur
Book-Friend, he/him
Ongoing meatspace 2E games being forced online? Probably quite a few of those, and 2E does have official VTT support.
Pathfinder 2E Release Day Second Edition Amazon Sales Rank
- Thread starter Parmandur
- Start date
Ongoing meatspace 2E games being forced online? Probably quite a few of those, and 2E does have official VTT support.
Could be. Though note that this was April 2019, not April 2020. Why would there have been a large surge of 2e meatspace games being forced online then, before COVID-19 was even on the scene? (And why a surge in 2e in particular, and not other RPGs?)
Inquiring minds want to know!
Parmandur
Book-Friend, he/him
Oh, I misread that. I think that's when the formal AD&D support went online, with rules integration and supplement availability.
Hussar
Legend
Probably when they added the 2e ruleset to the VTT.
BryonD
Hero
So you agree that PF2E isn't growing?
That was the topic. And you just said you were demonstrating that "growth isn't flat as implied."
But we don't have any evidence to show anything other than that growth IS flat and now you are saying that as well.
I don't expect PF to grow in 2020. I don't expect CoC to grow in 2020.
I do expect PF2E to grow in the first 6 months after release.
teitan
Legend
I don’t take VTT usage as a good indicator no. I feel you want it to fail though. Most of the thread seems to be you asserting it’s failing or going to fail while it still comfortably sits at the number 2 best selling RPG on the market after 1e slipped out of the top 5.
BryonD
Hero
I didn't say fail. I asked if you had any evidence of growth. You have not shown any.
You are referencing things I have said, and yet you are misrepresenting me.
I have said that it is not growing. I have said that it is not achieving the marketshare or fanbase that the successor to PF should have access to.
It is possible that growth in players is simply not accompanied by growth in VTT play. But that isn't something one would assume and at best it is a negative sign that you can try to down play. As I specifically stated already.... (Unlike you comparing things which have no meaningful comparison and then backtracking)
It is still the new sequel to the former #1 RPG. It got a TON of hype and expectation. Nobody is arguing that it didn't sell gangbusters at release.* But being #2 in a field of 2 doesn't really say anything. (And a far distant #2 at that) You brought up CoC of all things. CoC is practically the same game that came out in the early 80s. And yet you are bragging against that? That smacks of confirmation bias right there.
Right this moment the core book isn't even #1 in "Pathfinder game". That honor goes to "The Ultimate RPG backstory guide". That's a $7 book that seems strange top be tagged in the PF category. It is silly to say that it means anything. But it is a fact that PF2E has been trading back and forth with that title for a few months. And I gotta say that this fact is more meaningful than any comparison to CoC.
Forget what you want and what I want. What does the data we have suggest?
Or you can stick to the ad hominem approach to deflect away from the topic.
* - though it did become the first Paizo major release to not sell out at GenCon.
teitan
Legend
Ad hominem implies I attacked you, I did not. I presented why the Amazon sales ranking is essentially meaningless right now due to prioritized shipping and when the sale actually occurs. You continuously disregard. I argue there is growth because 1e fell off the top five while since it came out 2e has returned Pathfinder to the number 2 spot since release. It's the only difference because the pocket guides have been on sale for two years or so now and the game still fell out of the top five and only returned with 2e release more than double the number 3 game. I don't expect Pathfinder or any other game to grow but to succeed or fail on it's own merits. You can take the information I presented in multiple posts for what they are or continue to ignore them and argue I failed to present obvious evidence, it's up to you though I imagine at this point, as you have repeatedly in the past will continue to do the latter.
BryonD
Hero
You strongly implied that my positions were invalid because I wanted to see PF2E fail (not true in itself), not because anything I said was wrong. Go look up ad hominem,
And, yet again, you get my position wrong. Go read what I said. I never once claimed that the current sales on Amazon were meaningful. Quite the contrary I agreed that it is meaningless right now due to the current world circumstances. Are you willing to correct yourself on that point?
I did disagree with others that the sales lag part specifically is meaningful. But I don't see you making that argument either. There are probably a lot less people buying and I also agreed with Djar's point that other books have probably shot up. Please go back and look.
As to the idea that you have shown growth, that is simply vacant of substance. Are you claiming that it grew from before it was released to after ti was released? Because, yeah, you got me. It is selling better now than it was before it was selling. But you have shown ZERO data that the fanbase for the game has grown at all between September 2019 and April 2020. I figured that "post release" part was understood.
And where did I ignore anything about the RPG marketplace overall growing? Quite attributing things to me that I have not done. It certainly creates the appearance that you want to change the subject in some way that deflects from you needing to back up your position.
You posted a string of meaningless images and you've tried to deflect from anything showing any kind of trend. Prior to Covid the sales trends, as best we can see, were flat to declining (again, unless you are comapring to before it was on sale at all......). The new data we have for Fantasy Grounds shows a complete lack of growth pre-Covid and a slight underperformance compared to the obsolete PF.
Yes, it is #2. And with no new game on the horizon it will probably continue to be #2 for some time. But, really I think I was wrong to call it #2 in a field of 2. It is the new game of the also-rans, it has a niche fanbase, and it has brand recognition. But even holding in at #1 in the "games that are not in the same weight class as D&D", it isn't growing. It hasn't and won't achieve the kind of broad popularity that a PF sequel could have had. You can proclaim that I'm just saying that because I want it to fail if it makes you feel better. But I'm just saying that because that is what is happening. "Want" is not a factor.
And, yet again, you get my position wrong. Go read what I said. I never once claimed that the current sales on Amazon were meaningful. Quite the contrary I agreed that it is meaningless right now due to the current world circumstances. Are you willing to correct yourself on that point?
I did disagree with others that the sales lag part specifically is meaningful. But I don't see you making that argument either. There are probably a lot less people buying and I also agreed with Djar's point that other books have probably shot up. Please go back and look.
As to the idea that you have shown growth, that is simply vacant of substance. Are you claiming that it grew from before it was released to after ti was released? Because, yeah, you got me. It is selling better now than it was before it was selling. But you have shown ZERO data that the fanbase for the game has grown at all between September 2019 and April 2020. I figured that "post release" part was understood.
And where did I ignore anything about the RPG marketplace overall growing? Quite attributing things to me that I have not done. It certainly creates the appearance that you want to change the subject in some way that deflects from you needing to back up your position.
You posted a string of meaningless images and you've tried to deflect from anything showing any kind of trend. Prior to Covid the sales trends, as best we can see, were flat to declining (again, unless you are comapring to before it was on sale at all......). The new data we have for Fantasy Grounds shows a complete lack of growth pre-Covid and a slight underperformance compared to the obsolete PF.
Yes, it is #2. And with no new game on the horizon it will probably continue to be #2 for some time. But, really I think I was wrong to call it #2 in a field of 2. It is the new game of the also-rans, it has a niche fanbase, and it has brand recognition. But even holding in at #1 in the "games that are not in the same weight class as D&D", it isn't growing. It hasn't and won't achieve the kind of broad popularity that a PF sequel could have had. You can proclaim that I'm just saying that because I want it to fail if it makes you feel better. But I'm just saying that because that is what is happening. "Want" is not a factor.
Similar Threads
