D&D 5E Reliable Talent. What the what?

[CapnZapp]

Saves:

The only officially listed DCs higher than 20 are monster's spell save DCs.

Unfortunately, the save system wasn't designed to handle this - almost every character will have several save bonuses still at around +0 even at the highest level.

And as I said, it is boring to not even succeed when you roll 20. More than boring, actually. I consider this a major flaw in 5E's design.

Either every save should top out at DC 20... or character advancement rules should have allowed a character to have a minimum save bonus of +5 or so at level twenty.

I'm fine with the option to gimp a save in order to focus on your strengths elsewhere. But that's simply not the case with the rules as written. In order to gain six saves all at +5 or higher you must essentially abandon everything else, and that's just not reasonable.

If a L20 character with a +0 save was an exception and not the rule, and furthermore that player chose to build his character that way, then "you can't ever hope to succeed at a DC 23 save with a +0 bonus" would have been okay. You made your choice, now live with it.

But a player should not have to do anything in particular to avoid such a fate, and that is simply not what the current rules ends up with.

 

[FieserMoep]

In order to gain six saves all at +5 or higher you must essentially abandon everything else, and that's just not reasonable.

Monks and Paladins might have a say here.

 

[CapnZapp]

Monks and Paladins might have a say here.

Not everyone play a Monk or a Paladin. Why should they have a say?

 

[FieserMoep]

They prove a general statement to be wrong. A paladin even supports his group.
I'd also argue that you do not have to sacrifice much in your build to get decent saves.
There are only 3 important saves to have, getting resilient for another one is rather easy and for plenty of builds even intended. Having two out of Con/Dex/Wis grants you a decent coverage.

 

[Flamestrike]

Everything you mention, except the cantrip, requires a spell slot. Reliable Talent requires no expenditure of resources.

The Rogue is supposed to be resource/ rest neutral.

This is their one thing. Well... this and sneak attack. They get to auto succeed any skill check with a DC of 20 or less.

Place the odd (1-2 max) DC 25+ checks in your adventures. Otherwise its pretty safe to assume the Rogue succeeds in checks with reliable talent.

Its a fantastic ability.

 

[ad_hoc]

I can't argue with your logic. If the designers are only putting in DC20 traps in an adventure designed for 11th level and up PC's, then yes, they must be taking Reliable Talent into account. It still seems odd to me, but such is life.

I have no houserules just yet, so I think I'll wait awhile and see how things play out before I tinker. Obviously Reliable Talent doesn't break other people's games, so I'm sure it won't break mine.

This is bounded accuracy in action characters are supposed to be better, not just treadmill.

 

[Ovinomancer]

This is bounded accuracy in action characters are supposed to be better, not just treadmill.

Actually, bounded accuracy implies that there's a chance of failure in addition to a chance for success. Reliable talent shatters that; intentionally, I believe. That's not a bad thing, per se, but it is a thing and is not explicitly stated.

There's a pattern to the complaints about this ability that is incredibly consistent, and that's that it upends the expectations of what bounded accuracy, outside of this ability, provides for pretty much everything else.

 

[nswanson27]

Split the party - and have all the skill checks fall on the non-rogue half.

 

[5ekyu]

As i have said, i would not alter this ability for my games.

But if it is needed or preferred to change it so there is a chance, i would suggest.

"Reliable talent does not apply when the check is at disadvantage."

That allows for unfavorable circumstance to create the chance of failure and the master of skills only is safe under "normal" or "favorable" conditions.

Or if you want even more...

"Reliable talent ONLY applies on checks rolled with Advantage" but to me this makes it fairly weak, very weak.



Sent from my VS995 using EN World mobile app

 

[FieserMoep]

The disadvantage thing sounds great as long as not suddenly gives disadvantage that is.
As for the advantage requirement, that would make it pretty useless given that on average your advantage roll is way better than just taking 10.