Religous Wars

[Dragonblade]

It depends on the degree to which your gods are involved in your campaign world.

I don't have spells like Commune in my world and while the gods are real, their ability to communicate with their followers is limited. Furthermore, the gods are enigmatic entities involved in cosmic events. Its easy for schisms to develop in such circumstances where the sects of a given church can't simply ask if a certain doctrine is right or wrong.

Especially, in LG faiths where the followers of a given orthodoxy are convinced of their righteousness. You could have two LG sects even war against each without either one being "wrong" or "evil".

Being LG or a paladin does not mean you are somehow part of some pacifistic borg-like collective of shared hippie happiness and cooperation. I could easily make a LG argument as to pacifism being an outright evil philosophy. And I could make an argument as to it being a LG philosophy.

Gary Gygax himself believed that it would not only be possible but likely for paladins of opposing faiths to take to the battlefield against each other and both would still be LG.

If you have gods who can step into internal church conflicts and say absolutely whether one sect is right or wrong then internal church warfare is likely to be minimal. But that doesn't mean another LG god can't declare the followers of another "dangerous fools" and declare their faith a heresy and demand their worshippers be converted, by sword if necessary. After all their souls and their children's souls and so on could be at stake! And deaths, while tragic are for the greater good.

Just some thoughts...

 

[Azure Trance]

I'm suffering from sleep deprivation at the moment, but this line stood out:

You could have two LG sects even war against each without either one being "wrong" or "evil".

Doesn't that make alignment subjective instead of objective, and therefore Orc babies and Kobold toddlers are therefore redeemable? [/quizzical]

 

[s/LaSH]

Here's the thing: Despite being (in my opinion) a good person, I don't really care about the billions of lives I take every day simply by having an immune system. Why, then, should a god worry about mortals who are in a similar position? (OK, OK, they probably do - but with how much of their full attention? Depends on the campaign, doesn't it?)

One other solution: It's not just the Church that's splitting - so is the God. Some bizarre divine thing is happening, and the God is evolving into two different beings - it just hasn't split yet. Each personality cares about a slightly different perspective, and wants to hedge its bets by accumulating more followers than the 'wrong' half (a corruption or abomination, of course, according to divine logic). This is really weird, but it works, because both sides are right. Bonus points for throwing in an NPC called Janus.

 

[ajanders]

Re: Re: Religous Wars

For the god-bothering thing, how often do the gods really deign to talk to mortals? Unless they're insufferable micromanagers, probably not very often. Unless any particular schism became *really* serious and followers actually started killing each other over it, the gawd in question probably wouldn't give a firk about doctrinal disputes. He's still getting the worship he needs, so why should he care? Gods are incredibly selfish like that...

I think "violent civil war" was what was suggested in the initial post. That implies "killing each other" to me.
I'll further submit an "incredibly selfish god" is not a good god, which was the other thing the original post specified.

Now, I have done some thinking about utilitarian gods, and those might tolerate religious strife "for the greater good"...that's a neutral good philosophy. A chaotic good god might not want to impose their opinion on their followers, though that might not be a very supportable position logically.
A lawful good god might have taken a mighty divine oath not to meddle in certain affairs of their followers or to reveal certain facts...thereby requiring them to stand aside and let their followers butcher each other.

Or just read Sepulchrave's story hour. That's really become my default answer to all questions related to good, evil, alignment, game religion, and paladins.
Read the Story Hour.

 

[apocalypstick]

Re: Re: Re: Religous Wars

Or just read Sepulchrave's story hour. That's really become my default answer to all questions related to good, evil, alignment, game religion, and paladins.
Read the Story Hour.

True. Word. Ditto. Do it. Now.

 

[2d6]

Keep in mind that when using spells like Commune, the PC may very likely be getting and agent of the deity rather then the deity itself, and different clerics may get different agents. These agents may not only have different interpretations of doctrine, they may have have conflicting agendas, even if they are LG.

This could go a couple of ways.

The clerics involved could be cosmopolitan enough to realize that the above is a possable situation and try to resolve it from there.

or they could accept the answers received as the gospel, declaring thier formal breathern heretics and excommunicating
them the old fashoned way.

that's my 2cp

2d6

 

[CCamfield]

One other solution: It's not just the Church that's splitting - so is the God. Some bizarre divine thing is happening, and the God is evolving into two different beings - it just hasn't split yet. Each personality cares about a slightly different perspective, and wants to hedge its bets by accumulating more followers than the 'wrong' half (a corruption or abomination, of course, according to divine logic). This is really weird, but it works, because both sides are right. Bonus points for throwing in an NPC called Janus.

Hot damn, that's a cool idea.

You could even make it based on the schism in the god's followers. If you decide that a god's energy and form come from the belief of their worshippers, a sufficiently wide split in the way that the god is worshipped... could split the god into two!

IMC the age of the gods' direct intervention is long in the past, and someone who can call upon the power of a god is rare and wondrous - or frightening! I wanted the gods to be more remote, and a holy man arriving out of the desert might attract a flock of new followers... but the 'cleric' might be a fraud, and officers of the law, and priests of the mainstream religions, could view a new religion as a threat.

 

[Olive]

Re: Re: Re: Religous Wars

Or just read Sepulchrave's story hour. That's really become my default answer to all questions related to good, evil, alignment, game religion, and paladins.
Read the Story Hour.

That was going to be my suggestion as well.

 

[Dr. Strangemonkey]

The Church could be splitting and killing itself over an issue that the god doesn't innately care about very much, or can reconcile in its own mind, and the god might not know of a quick and easy way to get around this schism that wouldn't violate its own ideals.

The god might be viewing the conflict from a much longer term perspective which makes it reluctant to interfere, but happy to make recompense for the souls affected by the conflict.

Another aspect of this, particularly if you are going to consider the reformation angle, is that the war is enough in the interests of other parties that is nigh impossible for the god or the basic teachings of the church to intervene.

Something like the above would have to be true for the thing to get the whole 30 years war reformation feel. Remember which side of the conflict Cardinal Richeliaue(spelling?) entered the armies of Catholic France on.

 

[GMVictory]

Re: Religious Wars

Actually, a commune spell isn't needed. All a cleric has to say is, "Look, if I'm sinning or wrong about my interpretation of the scriptures, why does the Holy One still grant me the power to cast spells and do His/Her will?"

"Ummm, uhh..."

As far as a Commune spell goes, unless the right question is asked, it would be difficult to know who is right or wrong. Imagine this exchange:
"Are we right?"
"No."
"Are they right?"
"No."
Now the caster has to ask 20 questions to try to figure out what they are doing wrong. And do you think a god would put up with a pop quiz from a follower?

I can also envision a god of peace and a god of war at odds, both good-aligned. Constant interference with each other leads to open conflict. Either the Followers of Peace fight or find those that will fight to protect them from the Warmongers.