Religous Wars

[the Jester]

Depending on the nature of gods in the campaign, maybe a god is defined by the belief of the worshipers, so both sects will get the answers they expect and want to hear.

While both sides are getting their spells, there's no clear answer.

 

[FireLance]

Commune examples:

Sect A: Are we right?

God: Yes.

Diametrically opposed Sect B: Are we right?

God: Yes.

If the god, thinking impossible divine thoughts, can reconcile these two sects to its satisfaction, it gives the above answers.

Haven't you heard? Not all truths are unequal.

 

[Azure Trance]

Re: Re: Re: Religous Wars

Or just read Sepulchrave's story hour. That's really become my default answer to all questions related to good, evil, alignment, game religion, and paladins.
Read the Story Hour.

That's what started this in the first place, you know. Now you people give me the run around to go back from where it all origininated? Pffft ...

Though Sepulchrave (and I take PC) reasons are quite epic. When I first started this topic, I wondered if a more casual reason could be done; ie, over the last century, wars between the Reformed Ullarts and the New Light sect broke out several times. That way the God wouldn't have to be suffering from schizophrenia each time different factions appear and wage war on each other, in a way only humans can.

 

[Rackhir]

A) A lot depends on exactly HOW involved the god is with mortal worshipers. If the god was intimately involved then, no a war probably couldn't break out. However, if you have a lot of layers of "buracracy" between the worshipers and the god, probably in the form of solars, planetars etc... I can see it fairly easily. For one thing probably only the highest level priests get to talk to the gods directly, lesser priests talk to "assisants" who say "We'll let the boss know." (throw into circular file). Those highest level priests could have either differing interpretations of dogma and have intollerant personalities, thus being unwilling to compromise or having had their power go to their head and thus conflict could arise if the point of contention would lead to a loss of power/influence.

B) The church could be spread across "national" boundries and the beliefs/dogmas/approaches to the religion could be heavily influenced by the cultures of the different societies and that could well created differences that would be unresolvable. At the risk of getting political/religious, the abortion debate is probably a good example of this. Both sides have a good argument for their point of view and both could easily be considered correct, yet they are diametrically opposed and incompatible. Good isn't always clear cut.

C) The god may well be reluctant to simply lay down the law on every last point. If it's the god to whom all decisions are decided by, the worshipers become little more than servants and that may be unaceptable to the god, especially if it is a god that encourages things like individual concience, free thought, personal growth, learning and development. There was a short story take on the Adam and Eve fable, in which they stood up to god when he challenged them over eating the apple and refused to cower and beg for mercy. God then said something to the effect of "I have done this a thousand times on a thousand different worlds and have found only slaves and worshipers. Only here do I have equals."

 

[Storminator]

Haven't you heard? Not all truths are unequal.

Huh?

That didn't make an sense to me.

I guess I haven't heard.

PS

 

[FireLance]

Huh?

That didn't make an sense to me.

I guess I haven't heard.

PS

An overly cryptic reference to Sepulchrave's Story Hour. Sorry about that.

 

[Coik]

Re: Re: Re: Religous Wars

I think "violent civil war" was what was suggested in the initial post. That implies "killing each other" to me.

Point.

I'll further submit an "incredibly selfish god" is not a good god, which was the other thing the original post specified.

Well, gods all have agendas, right? And they seek to impose them on the world, right? That's how they get more powerful, after all...the more smiths there are, the more residual power the patron gawd of smiths picks up, and the more prayers and worship are offered up. And they generally seek to impose those agendas to the exclusion of everything else, right? Don't see many smith gods telling their followers to go out and be kind to animals, f'rinstance. So in the end, it's all about the god...their agenda, their power, their[/'i] worldview...any benefit to their worshipers is a side effect. A welcome one, since it tricks more people into worshiping them, but still a side effect nonetheless.

 

[WayneLigon]

The idea of Free Will also enters into it. And the degree of intervention possible. One of the prime ideas in a lot of fantasy fiction is that even the good gods dare not meddle too directly within the world or the evil ones get to do the same thing. Which would Be Bad.

Another way to approach it is through the idea that not all (or even most) of a church's organization is made up of spellcasters. If normal people can ascend to high office, then you have the makings of a religious/political scism righ there.

"But... but Prelate Armond, the God says--"

"The God says what, sister Alees? That I am misleading the people by declaring the holy war against Revene? The God talks to me, too, Alees. And he tells me you are a traitor! Take her away!"

 

[Plane Sailing]

My campaign has always had a monotheistic setting, but with a many-faceted god. There are several "cults" of Asura, and a few banned, "evil" cults which were wiped out long ago (as everyone knows...).

I specifically had this setup to enable friction between the different factions, each calling out to the aspect of their god which supports their theology (or is supported by their theology).

Within my campaign there are some theological earthquakes going on at the moment, and the adventurers have been seeing more and more refugees coming over the mountains over the last year, strongly implying that there are some severe problems over in the big theocratic state. Eventually they will go and get involved.

I've introduced lots of schisms, and it works wonderfully. The LG paladin was challenged to a formal "congress of blades" by a LE paladin, and was most put off to hear the LE woman call upon Asura's blessing just before he did himself!

I'm planning for the PC's to be instrumental in setting off and hopefully leading a huge civil war in the theocracy fairly shortly

 

[Azure Trance]

This thread so far has been invaluable. Y'all rock.

There were two ways I could see myself pursuing a pantheon. One was a monotheistic, Sepulchravesque campaign with the idea of a Catholic-anaolgue. I didn't find this limiting at all, since it has a good deal of verisimilitude with the real world which the players could easily feel (using the word "Curia" for example). Also, examples of breaking away such as the Reformation (Calvinists) or the creation of the church of England can provide numerous ways of making politics very complex easily.

The second was a polytheistic campaign, and gets a bit more complex. Specifically, I was thinking of "The Book Of The Righteous." For those who don't know, BOTR has two new ideas -one goes on the idea of a well-accepted pantheon of good-aligned only gods reigning from heaven, as the evil ones are banished to hell (or abyss, if you prefer). The second is in the use of the great church, which is a church which worships all of the good gods equally. It does not supercede the gods own religious church but is more for the layman and promoting the idea of good in general, especially to curtail the advances of evil.

At the moment, I'm more interested in the second one since it's giving me the vibe of having the potential of being more convoluted. The history of the gods churches and the great church is left relatively open for the GM to modify as he see's fit. And looking at it from a pessimistic, cynical point of view, the potential for having it strifed with a history only humans can give is quite rich.

The gods own church can easily have different sects. The great church has different factions. Both churchs has bishops (or an equiv. title) ruling over a region or nation, thus entering in the politics of a kingdom and its king. Throw in some politics, backstabbing, and power hungry politicians or clergymen. Shake 'n bake, set in oven for a thousand years. End result could have something with the great church having an inquisition purging themselves or another gods church (wouldn't be pretty), splitting of a major faction due to politics of a nation, a people, or differing philosophical viewpoints, war between the factions, and long grudges.

But they'd all be good at heart.