Remember when ...

[Ranger REG]

Makes one wonder if the 5 years between editions 'plan' is a new strategy for WotC.

Old strategy, wrong product. It only works with electronic entertainment because no one complains about having to buy a new version of the same software.

 

[Ranger REG]

Playing D&D as a kid, we had two rulebooks for 6 players. We had no minis, and just the modules that came with the boxes (B2 and X1). But we had a great time. And we contributed to game-hours played, which I would consider the measure of health of a hobby.

Nowadays, gamers complain about supplement material as well as adventures. Generation "Me! Me! Me!" have gotten too self-important.

Sighs. I remembered the great times BEFORE internet have become public access. Whatever rules is missing, we make up on our own and not complain the lack of it.

If D&D could remain that cheap entertainment, it might have a larger number of players who played more aggregate game-hours but spent less money -- and that's not what WotC should want.

Sighs. I miss the old WotC, when Peter Adkison and Ryan Dancey were running the company.

 

[The Little Raven]

I miss the old WotC, when Peter Adkison and Ryan Dancey were running the company.

Ahh, the olden days, when CCGs were the Threat From Beyond Time, as opposed to the current dual-threats of video games and anime. A simpler time, indeed.

 

[Ranger REG]

Well, it's not like I'm petitioning WotC for sainthood.

We all have a dark side. You and everyone here have already seen mine.

 

[RigaMortus2]

The only one we're not seeing is 'They're going to turn D&D into Magic: The Gathering/Pokemon!'. That's been replaced by 'They're making D&D into a video game!'.

Good one!

When I first heard of Feats for 3E, I thought you'd get to make some interesting "combos" out of them, like you could with magic cards.

 

[Ranger REG]

When I first heard of Feats for 3E, I thought you'd get to make some interesting "combos" out of them, like you could with magic cards.

When I first heard of feats, I thought of Rolemaster, then Danger International (a HERO version of superspy RPG), then Marvel Super-Heroes, then Star Trek (from Last Unicorn Games, not FASA, not Decipher).

 

[OakwoodDM]

To be honest, I think most of the difference between the atmosphere of the 3e launch and the 4e launch comes down to 2 things:-

1) 3.5. If there hadn't been a 3.5, a lot of the people who started off wanting to hate 4e wouldn't have done. It would have been 8 years since the last version of the game, which is a reasonable amount of time, and more people would have been interested to see what the new edition was going to provide.

2) 2nd Ed was broken and not well loved. It was complicated to play, confusing and the splat books just made it worse. Then came Players' Option. 3e, on the other hand, is a generally stable, well loved and enjoyable game. There are bound to be far more people worried about lack of support for 3e than there were about 2nd ed.

Of course, there is also the information release thing, but, to be fair to WotC, releasing new info for 3e was a lot easier because the whole system was new, so there was more interesting stuff to reveal.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

Whether or not you are enthusiastic about 4e, I think it's pretty clear that a lot of 3.5 fans have understandable reasons to be annoyed with the new version, either because they weren't ready to upgrade or they aren't happy with the new direction. While AD&D 2e was languishing when 3e came out, 4e comes on the heels of a thriving 3e.

It is too some degree understandable, but is it warranted?

Many people say "I have so many products that could last me a lifetime". So basically these people don't actually need any more supplements - so why bother if no new supplements for 3E appear? Either they wouldn't have bought them anyway, or they would have wasted money!

Seen as an extreme, regardless of how much we have, we always hunger for more. And if we decide to hunger for 4E (so to speak), this means all the stuff we believe we would use will definitely be no longer used. Which means we really become aware that we wasted our money.
The other extreme, we wouldn't actually hunger for more products means that WotC has no choice but to switch to a different product and try to sell it. That's resulting in D&D 4.

That's only the business side of things.


On the other side, we also have the "creative" thing. The designers and developers of WotC are good at making rules. That's what they like to do. But how many new rules can they come up with, that will also fit into the existing rulework? At some point, the system becomes to complicated, to bloated, and to unwieldly. Balance becomes to complex to gauge, and the game will not work as nicely as it did.
And it's not only a problem for the designers. Think about the reactions to the new magical items in the MIC - many people object to them because they seem overpowered. They are thinking in the 3E core rulework and its assumptions, and products not following the details are not acceptable for them.

So, the designers and developers want a new system, because they just can't add something interesting and working to the new one.

 

[Ranger REG]

2) 2nd Ed was broken and not well loved. It was complicated to play, confusing and the splat books just made it worse. Then came Players' Option. 3e, on the other hand, is a generally stable, well loved and enjoyable game. There are bound to be far more people worried about lack of support for 3e than there were about 2nd ed.

I'm the exception. Player's Option, mainly the Skills and Powers volume is what turned me off 2e completely. 3e is what was needed to remove any bitter taste of 2e Revised.

I know they have used or based some 3e material from Player's Option but I'm glad they didn't revive or port over the class feature point-buy. The talent (tree) system is much better than Player's Option point-buy.

 

[Ranger REG]

Whether or not you are enthusiastic about 4e, I think it's pretty clear that a lot of 3.5 fans have understandable reasons to be annoyed with the new version, either because they weren't ready to upgrade or they aren't happy with the new direction. While AD&D 2e was languishing when 3e came out, 4e comes on the heels of a thriving 3e.

3.5e fans?

What about the 3.0e fans that weren't ready for 3.5e, which came out THREE bleepin' years after 3.0e debut? I didn't convert to 3.5e until 2005.

I am actually surprised 4.0e didn't come out THREE years after 3.5e, which would be 2006.