D&D 5E Removal of class-based stat bonuses?

[overgeeked]

One of the things I really loved in the early/middle playtest packets was the fact that characters received a stat bonus from their race and from their class. So one +2 for being a dwarf and another +2 for being a fighter. I thought that was great as it finally put a mechanical nail in the coffin of good/bad race and class combos. You could finally actually play a decent dwarven wizard or a halfling cleric. It was great because the game finally gave more than lip service to the idea of "any race, any class". Yes, technically you can do that now, but you do it knowing full well that you're going for a mechanically deficient choice in a game that heavily rewards peak mechanical prowess.

I'm still boggled that this was removed from the final game. Along with a few other tidbits, like fighters having a set/minimum damage dice for their weapon attacks so they could choose their weapons based on thematic rather than mechanical choices.

I just don't get why characters would receive a set bonus based on race, but not a set bonus based on class. Does the years of study and training to become a fighter, cleric, magic-user, or thief just give you a vast array of skills and knowledge to draw from yet somehow have absolutely no effect on a character's general strength, dexterity, intelligence, or wisdom? That seems more than a bit ridiculous to me.

I think an easy house rule fix would be to give characters a +2 from one of their two race bonus stats and a +2 from one of their two class saving throw stats. Simple and effective without being game destroying.

 

[Inglorin]

Why not remove the race bonus alltogether and switch over to a class bonus completely? I think I would prefer this to adding just another set of bonuses which would increase the base attributes some more.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Why not remove the race bonus alltogether and switch over to a class bonus completely?

Because half-orcs are stronger than halflings, and the rules should reflect that.

 

[overgeeked]

Because half-orcs are stronger than halflings, and the rules should reflect that.

Exactly. And the corollary is that fighters are stronger than wizards, and the rules should reflect that.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Exactly. And the corollary is that fighters are stronger than wizards, and the rules should reflect that.

This is already true, though. If you take a survey of 100 fighters and 100 wizards, the average Strength for fighters will be 6-10 points higher than the average Strength for wizards.

 

[Inglorin]

Exactly, and this is equally true for halforcs and halflings. The distribution of the attributes tends to follow the chosen class. If the class now modifies the attributes even further, you could skip the race bonuses altogether.

 

[overgeeked]

This is already true, though. If you take a survey of 100 fighters and 100 wizards, the average Strength for fighters will be 6-10 points higher than the average Strength for wizards.

You're ignoring that's because people pick races with beneficial stat bonuses and place their array in such a way that most fits their class choice. What you see is races with Str bonuses as Fighter and a derth of non-Str bonus races as fighter. Likewise with ain't and wizards. It's more a function of race than class. You want to play a certain class so you pick a synergistic race. Or pick a race and look at the good class combos for those stat bonuses.

It should be more open than that. Half-Orc clerics and wizards. Halfling paladins. Dwarf sorcerers and warlocks. Without being a bonus behind everyone else.

 

[CapnZapp]

An attempt at a serious reply to the OP (beyond the too-much-change answer that probably is the real answer):

A few levels of fighter might not provide an actual Strength increase, but Strength alone does little in this game. Unless your goal is to work as a Strongman at a circus, Strength needs to be enabled for it to provide you with a significant benefit.

In a game where you roll a twenty-sided die, increasing your Strength bonus is perhaps not trivial, but not exactly character-defining either. In comparison, taking a feat such as Great Weapon Fighter, or getting a second attack at 5th level, or even getting access to martial weapons at level 1, is much more formative in how you exhibit "being strong" than the Strength score itself.

I don't simply mean that your chosen class encourages you to increase certain stats. I mean that any given ability score means much less mechanically than your class features in how that ability is manifested in practical actions and actual in-game results.

There you have an answer to why this was removed from the final game (again forgetting for a moment the "D&D gamers are ultra-conservative" argument)

Zapp

PS. A much simpler, faster answer: because unlike every previous edition, you can actually catch up (at level 12 at the latest; in games with random stats probably earlier). Your Half-Orc clerics, Halfling paladins and Dwarf sorcerers already start merely a +1 behind; but in this edition lots of them will be indistinguishable from "optimal" combos already at level 8 or even earlier...

 

[The Crimson Binome]

You're ignoring that's because people pick races with beneficial stat bonuses and place their array in such a way that most fits their class choice.

I'm not ignoring that at all. I'm saying that this is working as intended. It's not that being a fighter makes you strong; it's that strong people become fighters.

It should be more open than that. Half-Orc clerics and wizards. Halfling paladins. Dwarf sorcerers and warlocks. Without being a bonus behind everyone else.

Why? Why should a half-orc make a good wizard, when half-orcs have never been portrayed as smart? Why should halflings load up on heavy armor and big swords, when the race has never included elements of being strong?

Half-orcs are naturally stronger, and halflings are natrually more agile. The lore has always supported this, and the rules reflect that lore.

 

[Rune]

Because half-orcs are stronger than halflings, and the rules should reflect that.

The rules can reflect that without racial stat bonuses at all, if racial abilities encourage players to arrange stats such that they can better take advantage of those abilities.

For instance, the half-orc's ability to reroll one melee damage die encourages larger weapons, which encourages having a high strength score to use them with.

And the halfling's enhanced opportunities to hide encourage a high dexterity for use with stealth.

A character could place a good score in both, of course, but not without some cost.