Remove my Account Please

[ledded]

I actually disagree with this. I think that one of the most important understandings a person can come to is that attacks upon their ideas are NOT THE SAME as attacks against their person. It's this that makes debate a useful means of getting to the truth -- or of coming to the best solution for a problem. Everybody contributes their ideas, and attacks each others' and the best idea will survive.

That's only possible if everyone involved can maintain the intellectual distinction between their ideas and their ego. But that's how it's done.

Amen, brother. A wise friend of mine once told me that the true sign of an intelligent person was the propensity for being able to entertain an idea without actually having to believe in it.

I've always found folks that take pointed inquiry into their ideas as personal attacks (barring name-calling and abject rudness) to be either too close-minded or actually researched/confident in their subject to actually debate it.

This is one reason why we're always told not to talk about religion or politics in polite conversation; very few people can debate these subjects without giving in to either their passion or ignorance of it, and they are subjects often at the very core of a persons personal belief system so it's best left alone unless you know they can provide discourse without taking offense at a polite challenge or debate. Of course, some people can be that way about the kind of socks they wear too.

But you are right; you can't ever truly explore a subject (IMO) unless you can at least attempt to view it from every angle, and take your personal passions out of the equation. Nobody's perfect though; while I can take challenges to most of my ideas or beliefs in stride and relish in a good debate, there are a few topics I cannot reliably provide a good debate on because I find it too hard to even understand the other side of it.

You just have to divorce you personal feelings as best you can and keep an open mind, and if you can't do those for the most part I believe you should just stay out of it.

I design software for a living and when three or four brilliant engineers (and me -- NOT a brilliant engineer let me assure you) hole up in a meeting room with a couple of whiteboards to decide how to implement a new feature, I can tell you that if somebody thinks an idea is stupid they don't hold back. As a non-brilliant non-engineer I certainly come in for a healthy share of the criticisms -- my ideas tend to be pretty stupid -- but I can't let it bother me. And it doesn't, because I know smart people have stupid ideas all the time. And I know that two smart people can disagree on what is a stupid idea.

Oh man, I do the same thing on a daily basis. And I can tell you this, the guy who, no matter how brilliant, acts like a big baby every time his ideas are challenged is a liability to the *team* and often will find himself off of the project and out of a job. I've been a team lead on a few occasions and had to more than once either talk with someone or have them moved onto a different project so we could get some actual software design done; in several jobs I've been on the deadlines were tight on mission-critical real-time systems and there is no room for major mistakes. Disagreements are common, and people will often vehemently challenge your ideas; that's the nature of the business because if you follow someone's idea often you will be liable for making it actually work. I don't have patience for fools, but I also don't have patience for children at work either, because my clients often have measured their down-time costs in the 10's of thousands of dollars per hour or even minute.

I'll echo the others saying that ENWorld is a freakin' oasis of civilized discussion on the Internet. It's full of really really smart, passionate, articulate people who hold very strong opinions and often disagree and yet manage to keep the same civility and mutual respect that I see those brilliant engineers display. I just try to hold myself to the same standards I see the best people on these boards maintain.

I agree whole-heartedly. While people will sometimes get arrogant, confrontational or argumentative, most of the time I've seen that it hasnt been in the realm of personal or outrageous attacks but merely strong debate. Even you (Barsoomcore) and I have mixed it up pretty hard once or twice in a thread, and have managed to come out of it shaking hands and wiping the dirt off without talking ill about each other's mothers

There are plenty of other sites that are nowhere near as civilized as this one, and I think it's as much due to the participants as our moderators setting a good example.

Each person decides what is offensive. The only exception to that is when someone is purposefully trying to offend you to get a reaction, and the best way to react to that is by intelligently pointing it out. I've often said something that was stupid without thinking and was properly berated for it; I usually smile and get on with life.

 

[Piratecat]

I think we're probably done here.

Klunk.