Repulsive Armor vs Warding Blades

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Okay, here is my take on this. I'm accepting what the majority here is saying about the *mechanics* of a normal OA. That it stops someone from leaving a threatened adjacent square until its resolved (hit/miss, dmg etc) makes sense.

In the case of Warding Blade though, I'm going with the long accepted axim that a specific rule trumps a general rule, and I (and my DM) are accepting WOTCs Customer support analysis of it and what it does. The key for us was this line from their reply:

" This is not triggered by an attack of opportunity, but instead is a power that triggers an attack
of opportunity under certain circumstances"


Now as far as Repulsive Armor goes, I've gotten 3 different replies from WOTC, from 3 different reps, but all 3 consistently answer that an enemy that is kicked back is not allowed to continue their movement, unless they want to spend a standard action, or use an attack power (for example) that lets them make additional movement, back into the adjacent square. However WOTC insists that Repulsive Armor can only be uses -1- per round. It can't kick back multiple enemies that approach you during 1 round.

The consensus seems to be that since it is an reaction, and not an interrupt, that RA "wakes up" as they enter the adjacent square, then when their action that triggers RA is resolved, (they are in the adjacent square) then RA kicks them back one square. Since their movement was resolved, they can't move again without sacrificing a standard action, or some power that allows them to move/attack.

Well, thats what we're going with. I thank everyone for their responses and the discussion. Very informative! I'd also like to thank everyone for not allowing this thread to degenerate into a flamewar, which sadly happens too often.

Thank you all very much!

 

[keterys]

As long as your group has a consistent rule and enjoys itself, it really doesn't matter whether you're following RAW or not.

It is a little sad that the CS person didn't know some basic rules, such as how immediate reactions work - he said you could use multiple each turn, as well as didn't know how immediates work with respect to movement - but I have to imagine these guys aren't exactly being paid a lot of money.

I did put in Warding Blade for errata so that it does actually work for a fullblade wielding avenger.

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Yes, I noticed in that one reply that the one rep seemed to imply that you could use RA multiple times in a round. I and my DM discarded that. We've never interpreted its actions that way. In the last reply from WOTC that I have, the rep steered away from that. I think I've still got it:

Response (Support Rep) - 12/30/2009 06:35 AM
Hello Ronald,

Thank you for replying. I've rephrased your questions, to hopefully clear
any confusion up.

1. How many "Immediate Actions" do you get to use a round?

A. Page 269, of the Player's Handbook. "You can take one immediate action
per round, either an immediate interrupt or an immediate reaction.". I
apologize if the information given said otherwise. So once you use the
Repulsion Armor, 1 time per round you can push an enemy 1 square for the
rest of the encounter.

2. Someone uses an attack power that lets them shift into an adjacent
square while attacking. In this case, would they be allowed to finish their
attack before being kicked back one square?

A. As long as your Repulsion Armor is activated and you have not used it
this round, the enemy shifts, gives you the option to "Immediate Reaction
" and push him 1 square. If the attack is now an illegal attack, it will not finish.


So I think the one reply was just in error - that's the way I'm taking it.

Thanks!

 

[keterys]

Yep, that last reply was absolutely correct - and highlights a very good use of Repulsion Armor.

 

[Samir]

RAW--which in my opinion is probably not the intended behavior--Warding Blades does not grant you an attack against enemies moving adjacent to you if you don't have a reach weapon, since opportunity actions occur before the triggering action resolves, i.e. while the enemy is still 2 squares away from you.

If this weren't true, opportunity attacks against creatures moving away from you would not work at all. Your OA hits the creature while it's still sitting adjacent to you, before it's able to move away.

In the same fashion, your Warding Blades OAs try to hit enemies while they're still sitting 2 squares away from you--but they won't, of course, if you don't have a reach weapon. The FAQ ruling on Polearm Gamble supports this.

Despite all this, however, I would recommend that you don't play it this way. Instead, I think you should allow Warding Blades to grant OAs against enemies moving adjacent to you, because that's probably the intended functionality, and it's more fun that way.

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

RAW--which in my opinion is probably not the intended behavior--Warding Blades does not grant you an attack against enemies moving adjacent to you if you don't have a reach weapon, since opportunity actions occur before the triggering action resolves, i.e. while the enemy is still 2 squares away from you.

If this weren't true, opportunity attacks against creatures moving away from you would not work at all. Your OA hits the creature while it's still sitting adjacent to you, before it's able to move away.

In the same fashion, your Warding Blades OAs try to hit enemies while they're still sitting 2 squares away from you--but they won't, of course, if you don't have a reach weapon. The FAQ ruling on Polearm Gamble supports this.

Despite all this, however, I would recommend that you don't play it this way. Instead, I think you should allow Warding Blades to grant OAs against enemies moving adjacent to you, because that's probably the intended functionality, and it's more fun that way.

Ugh, thought we had settled this...

Well, according to WOTC, Warding Blade grants you an action like an Opportunity Attack. Its not really an OA, as is widely used and recognized.

"This is not triggered by an attack of opportunity, but instead is a power that triggers an
attack of opportunity under certain circumstances"

Its the power granting you an OA, not the movement of the foe into an adjacent square.

So indeed, you do not have to have a reach weapon.

 

[DracoSuave]

Ugh, thought we had settled this...

Well, according to WOTC, Warding Blade grants you an action like an Opportunity Attack. Its not really an OA, as is widely used and recognized.

"This is not triggered by an attack of opportunity, but instead is a power that triggers an
attack of opportunity under certain circumstances"

Its the power granting you an OA, not the movement of the foe into an adjacent square.

So indeed, you do not have to have a reach weapon.

Except that it IS an opportunity action and thusly must obey the rules for interrupting actions. It's not 'opportunity attack' that rules it, but 'opportunity action'

 

[keterys]

Ugh, thought we had settled this...

No worries, we did - your group isn't playing by RAW (on either power), but is playing in a consistent manner. RAW is probably screwed up for Warding Blade so you've got a pretty good chance of playing by RAI on it, but you're flat out upgrading Repulsion Armor, which is probably unnecessary but not going to break anything.

So, seriously, ignore the thread, keep playing and enjoying the game.

Warding Blade will hopefully be errata-ed at some point.

 

[DracoSuave]

Well, don't forget tho, Warding Blade's not -only- triggered by moving adjacent. It -also- is triggered by a hit or a miss. It's not so useless when you look at it in that context.

 

[DarkLord Of DForce]

Except that it IS an opportunity action and thusly must obey the rules for interrupting actions. It's not 'opportunity attack' that rules it, but 'opportunity action'

Please go up and read the replies from WOTC that I posted, if you've not already. According to them, Warding Blade grants the opportunity action, thus its coming from a power, not from the movement, like a typical OA.

I exchanged multiple e-mails with WOTC over this, and they have consistently answered that you do not have to have a reach weapon for Warding Blade. IF you were trying to say, straight out that you got an OA from someone moving into an adjacent square, and nothing else was in play, then I totally agree with you that you would have to have a reach weapon.

But not with Warding Blade...