Yes, to us, from our standpoint. But put a much wider multiverse into play, and I think that view becomes parochial. There's more out there than the mortal plane, and while it's certainly different from the Outer or Inner planes, it's not necessarily of any greater importance.
But it's
not just from "our standpoint." It's how the game, and the facts of the cosmos, are written in most editions of D&D.
The mortal world is the
source of souls. It's the source of worship. It's the entire reason for the conflict between gods (and other outer-planar entities), and is literally the center of creation.
This isn't the equivalent of taking all of space in sci-fi and claiming that Earth is at the center, and therefore must be of most importance. That
is parochial (and ignorant). But in the metaphysical cosmos as written throughout D&D's existence, it's
objective truth. There might be multiple mortal worlds (Eberron, Athas, etc.), but the mortal
universe really is the focus.
Obviously, one doesn't have to play it that way, and I'm not saying it's "wrong" to play it differently. But that
is how the game's written, so I don't think it's a stretch to say it's how the game's embodiments of evil should treat it.
Let's also not forget that a "mortal world-centric" view is not only consistent with D&D, but with almost every aspect of myth and fantasy that went into inspiring and creating D&D. Again, there's nothing wrong with playing it differently; but at its core, the game needs to support the basic archetypes on which it's built.
But even those have some greater end in mind beyond the sheer sense of evil joy or satisfaction that comes with ruining someone's soul - some want to become gods, for example, which is desiring greater personal power, and just using mortals to that end.
Yes, a few who have additional ends in mind. But my PoV is that
most do
not. They really
are about evil for the joy and satisfaction of it. They might get different sorts of satisfaction out of it, and they might have different methods for doing it, but ultimately, they do it because they like it--or, more accurately, because it's
what they are. They literally have no choice about it; they couldn't stop any more than a human could decide to stop aging, or thinking. Again, as soon as you get away from that, you weaken the fiends' very existence as the cosmological/theological embodiments of pure evil, IMO.
Other fiends might not care about mortals at all, however. Some might just want to gain greater control of their own plane. Others might want to invade the Upper planes and lay waste to Heaven (and/or other planes of goodness).
To me, fiends not focused on the mortal world would be the minority--and even they would want to throw down heaven or rule their own plane, ultimately, because it puts them in a better position to enjoy, and benefit from, the spreading of evil amongst mortals and claiming souls.
Yeah, but a race is made up of individuals.
Which is why I said "some." Not all, or most, or even a significant minority.
I can understand not wanting/needing a deeper motivation for NPCs that are in an adventure primarily to be killed by the PCs - each encounter doesn't need much of a (or in some cases, any) backstory. But overall, just saying that there's an entire race of powerful, immortal, intelligent, scheming evil creatures who have no drive or ambition except to basically commit artful murders really seems like a waste.
This isn't about NPCs "meant to be killed" or not. I'm not talking about that.
There are already plenty of evils in the game that have all sorts of motivations for what they do. To me, the whole point of the fiends is that they
don't. As literal manifestations of evil incarnate, I think they
must have, at the core of their motivations, nothing more than the desire--even the need--to commit evil.
The corrupt priest, the tyrant king, the greedy dragon, the ancient lich, the twisted demigod, even the evil god--
these have motives for their evil. But the devils and demons? They might be the ones who tempt these others into doing evil, but they aren't the ones with the complex motives. It completely changes what they are.
Why not? People fight wars over religious differences, which is just as dumb and isn't much different.
Because they're not people. Making them
care about philosophical/theological concerns, except for how they can use those to acquire more souls, is exactly what I'm talking about in terms of humanizing them. They
don't care about such things, or at least they shouldn't, except so they can manipulate/lie about them better.
Aren't they also fighting for full control over the lower planes? That's how I've always looked at it.
Why? Seriously, what's the point? It's not like either faction is going to run out of real estate. IMO, any competition between fiends should be waged on the mortal realm, with the lives and/or souls of mortals as the prize, or within their own hierarchy, for a higher position.
Again, I can see a few
individual demons or devils launching a scheme that requires them to carve out some of the other faction's territory, but as a race? I cannot think of a solid reason why they should care.
I'm sure corrupting mortals for a few thousand years gets boring.[/quote[
Again, you're ascribing human emotions and motivations that I'm not convinced these creatures should even have. I can see a devil getting bored with specific
ways of corrupting mortals and claiming souls, or a demon with a specific
method of destruction. But getting bored with the whole thing? I see them as literally incapable of it; again, it's just part of their nature.
I've heard this a few times and I don't think anyone has given me a good example....Besides that, I really don't see how you can run any fiend or celestial without humanizing their actions and personalities. They were once mortals, so having desires like fighting in a war against an enemy doesn't seem odd to me.
Well, a lot of them
weren't once mortals, but let's leave that aside...
I got into this above, a little. Giving them the full array of emotions was a mistake. A demon should not be able to feel love; it literally is incapable of the emotion, and if it understands the concept at all, it views it only as a weakness that mortals are stuck with. A devil
cannot get bored with corruption and torture, by its very nature.
People have been talking about wanting to give the fiends deeper motivations for their evil, but while I understand that impulse--most DMs and storytellers have an aversion to what we've been taught to view as two-dimensional characters--that's exactly what
should not be done with the fiends. If they're to be truly inhuman, true embodiments of evil, they
cannot require reasons for doing what they do. They just
do them, because that's their nature.
They can
act human at times--as part of a scheme, or out of habit--but they do not
feel what we do, and they don't require the same reasons for their actions that we do.
