D&D General Rethinking the class name "Druid".

[Crimson Longinus]

The Druid is a mishmash of several independent concepts.

Not really. The connection is nature. Elemental spirits are part of nature, so are plant spirits and animal spirits.

If one chooses one of the elemental options for Wildshape, a Druid character concept might have nothing to do with animals.

Doesn't sound like a druid to me.

 

[Yaarel]

Elemental spirits are part of nature, so are plant spirits and animal spirits.

Elements are part of nature − the building blocks that nature is made out of.

D&D tends to associate "nature spirits" with Fey.

However, most "nature beings" are elementals: river, mountain, rain, lightning, wind, sunlight, and so on, and trees.

This suggests that nature beings arent Fey. Rather, they are Elemental.

Moreover, nature beings arent "spirits", per se. The nature beings are physical objects, the actual river itself, the sunlight itself, the wind itself, the mountain itself, and so on.

These Elementals are nature, but they feel different from Humanoid and Beast that are also part of nature.

Doesn't sound like a druid to me.

The Bard has Mind themes and Life themes (Animals, Shapeshifting, Healing, etcetera).

The Druid has Elemental themes and Life themes.

A Druid character concept can specialize in specific tropes and themes.

When I portray reallife alchemists and alchemical traditions, the Druid tends to be the best class to model them. The Druid can represent both Hellenistic alchemists and Daoist alchemists.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Elements are part of nature − the building blocks that nature is made out of.

D&D tends to associate "nature spirits" with Fey.

However, most "nature beings" are elementals: river, mountain, rain, lightning, wind, sunlight, and so on, and trees.

This suggests that nature beings arent Fey. Rather, they are Elemental.

Moreover, nature beings arent "spirits", per se. The nature beings are physical objects, the actual river itself, the sunlight itself, the wind itself, the mountain itself, and so on.

These Elementals are nature, but they feel different from Humanoid and Beast that are also part of nature.

'Spirits' was merely a generic word for various supernatural nature beings. Granted the D&D taxonomy is somewhat confused.

The Bard has Mind themes and Life themes (Animals, Shapeshifting, Healing, etcetera).

The Druid has Elemental themes and Life themes.

A Druid character concept can specialize in specific tropes and themes.

It seems we think these things rather differently. I think the themes of these classes in more broad terms.

When I portray reallife alchemists and alchemical traditions, the Druid tends to be the best class to model them. The Druid can represent both Hellenistic alchemists and Daoist alchemists.

This seems thematically super weird to me. I'd see alchemist almost as the opposite of the druid. To me the theme would be science vs nature. And there of course literally exist a class to represent an alchemist in D&D, the artificer. But if it works for you.

 

[Yaarel]

It seems best to view all natural influences as Ethereal.

The mind of each human and stone, the soul of each human and stone, exerts influence within the Ethereal Plane.

The ether is a realm of force, being a physical influence, but that lacks material mass, matter. Force is physical but immaterial.

Fey creatures are thus Ethereal creatures, albeit the Positive Energy Plane significantly energizes them.

Oppositely, Shadow creatures are likewise Ethereal creatures (like ghosts), but the Negativity significantly saps them allowing them to rest.

Meanwhile the Ethereal Plane is a continuum from Positivity to Negativity.

 

[Yaarel]

'Spirits' was merely a generic word for various supernatural nature beings.

Thats kinda the point. Nature beings arent "supernatural". Nature beings are natural. Nature beings are nature.

Granted the D&D taxonomy is somewhat confused.

Yeah.

It seems we think these things rather differently. I think the themes of these classes in more broad terms.

I see classes as a convenient way to organize thematically related options. A Fighter concept might only use a sword. Not every Fighter needs to alternate between sword, spear, trident, dagger, club, mace, halbert, naganata, staff, etcetera. A class allows for specialization.

This seems thematically super weird to me. I'd see alchemist almost as the opposite of the druid. To me the theme would be science vs nature. And there of course literally exist a class to represent an alchemist in D&D, the artificer. But if it works for you.

Reallife alchemist traditions included plants, and notably life. In some Medieval Hellenistic alchemical traditions, the soul of alchemist oneself (via mental focus) sometimes functioned as the "fifth element" as part of the ingredients to achieve healing, immortality, and so on. The Druid spells are spot-on for alchemy. Alchemists are protoscientists of the natural world. They seek to understand how nature works.

 

[Silvercat Moonpaw]

Thats kinda the point. Nature beings arent "supernatural". Nature beings are natural. Nature beings are nature.

I don't tend to draw that kind of line: I'm not fond of categorizing something as "unnatural".

Plus you could always have "supernatural" beings who represent or are connected to "natural" beings such that tapping into "supernatural" powers would allow you to assume "natural" shapes.

 

[Yaarel]

I don't tend to draw that kind of line: I'm not fond of categorizing something as "unnatural".

Yeah. It is natural for humans to do artificial things!

Plus you could always have "supernatural" beings who represent or are connected to "natural" beings such that tapping into "supernatural" powers would allow you to assume "natural" shapes.

"Supernatural" means something outside of nature that controls nature.

But nature beings arent outside of nature. Nature beings are exactly nature. Without them, there is no nature!

The mind of mountain is the mountain itself. Just like the mind of a human is the human oneself.

Mountains and other objects of nature are "persons".

 

[Greg K]

Not D&D, but we did play Rolemaster

I am guessing it was briefly with either Rick or the other Greg running.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Thats kinda the point. Nature beings arent "supernatural". Nature beings are natural. Nature beings are nature.

Semantically 'supernatural nature being' might be awkward, but that's what things like elementals, dryads etc are. And if we get super technical, in a magical world nothing is supernatural, as magical things are part of the 'science' of that world. But that's not how people usually use the word in such contexts.

I see classes as a convenient way to organize thematically related options. A Fighter concept might only use a sword. Not every Fighter needs to alternate between sword, spear, trident, dagger, club, mace, halbert, naganata, staff, etcetera. A class allows for specialization.

Sure. I just would probably organise the thematic components of the classes differently.

Reallife alchemist traditions included plants, and notably life. In some Medieval Hellenistic alchemical traditions, the soul of alchemist oneself (via mental focus) sometimes functioned as the "fifth element" as part of the ingredients to achieve healing, immortality, and so on. The Druid spells are spot-on for alchemy. Alchemists are protoscientists of the natural world. They seek to understand how nature works.

Sorry, not working for me. Druids are not scientist. They don't really seek to 'understand how nature works' in empirical sense; they connect with it on mystic and spiritual level.

Also, artificer is a thing.

 

[Greg K]

Animal feels like a different character concept from Elemental-Plant.

Animal feels right to me if you are going to allow Plant.

For me, Humanoid and Beast, even Monstrosity, go together. So shapeshifting includes human forms and so on.

Elemental shapechange (which is what I would call "transmutation" proper) is becoming rock, metal, fire, vapor, ice, wood, and so on.

Personally, elemental shape changing is a big no for what would interest me.