D&D (2024) Revisiting Classes from OneD&D

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah, the Tenents from Xanathar's are bit of a stretch for a non-Evil PC to uphold. Maaaaaaaaayne Lawful Neutral or a dick-ish True Neutral "must enforce The Balance."

Douse the Flame of Hope. It is not enough to merely defeat an enemy in battle. Your victory must be so overwhelming that your enemies’ will to fight is shattered forever. A blade can end a life. Fear can end an empire.

Rule with an Iron Fist. Once you have conquered, tolerate no dissent. Your word is law. Those who obey it shall be favored. Those who defy it shall be punished as an example to all who might follow.

Strength Above All. You shall rule until a stronger one arises. Then you must grow mightier and meet the challenge, or fall to your own ruin.

I see it making it in the new PHB because it is a popular pick and different than the others mwchanically...though hopefully toned down by a lot, thematically.

Yeah like, the second tenent reads like Oath of fascism, which cannot be Good. Hopefully they tone it down if they do include it.

But I also don’t think they will put all the most popular subclasses in the PHB. Very good way to make the “everything” books into paperweights in the eyes of most players.

 

[TwoSix]

Yeah like, the second tenent reads like Oath of fascism, which cannot be Good. Hopefully they tone it down if they do include it.

But I also don’t think they will put all the most popular subclasses in the PHB. Very good way to make the “everything” books into paperweights in the eyes of most players.

I'll draw a firm line in the sand; if more than half of the subclasses in the 2024 PHB are reprints (25 out of 48), I won't buy it.

 

[Parmandur]

Yeah like, the second tenent reads like Oath of fascism, which cannot be Good. Hopefully they tone it down if they do include it.

But I also don’t think they will put all the most popular subclasses in the PHB. Very good way to make the “everything” books into paperweights in the eyes of most players.

Oh, it's 100% the Oath of Fascism: 2017 was a different time, I guess...?

Crawford said during the creators summit that some Xanathar's and Tasha's Subclasses will be in the new PHB, and popular options for the Clases with less than 4 in the '14 PHB seem likely candidates. I expect Swashbuckler for the Rogue, for example.

 

[Parmandur]

I'll draw a firm line in the sand; if more than half of the subclasses in the 2024 PHB are reprints (25 out of 48), I won't buy it.

Well, we know 1 of the 48, the College of Dance for the Bard, will be all new. There may be more. But I reckon the overwhelming majority will be tweaks of PHB or Everything options, as this is the new PHB.

 

[Dausuul]

I'll draw a firm line in the sand; if more than half of the subclasses in the 2024 PHB are reprints (25 out of 48), I won't buy it.

How are you defining "reprint?" Does it have to have the same mechanics, or the same concept, or just the same name? If they take an existing subclass and make some balance tweaks, and adjust it to fit with changes in the base class/core rules, is that a reprint?

I don't think we're likely to see many straight-up, copy-paste "reprints" like you'd see in a splatbook. But we'll have a lot of "polish and tweak" on existing materials... that's kind of the whole point of a new edition, or half edition, or quasi-edition, or whatever this thing is.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I'll draw a firm line in the sand; if more than half of the subclasses in the 2024 PHB are reprints (25 out of 48), I won't buy it.

Considering the purpose of the new core books, almost certainly less than half will be new.

Oh, it's 100% the Oath of Fascism: 2017 was a different time, I guess...?

Crawford said during the creators summit that some Xanathar's and Tasha's Subclasses will be in the new PHB, and popular options for the Clases with less than 4 in the '14 PHB seem likely candidates. I expect Swashbuckler for the Rogue, for example.

I can see a few, but at most any class needs 2 added subclasses, and with at least 1 new one for each class (being optimistic), I think the only classes that will have expansion subclasses will be the ones with only 2 phb subclasses.

Well, we know 1 of the 48, the College of Dance for the Bard, will be all new. There may be more. But I reckon the overwhelming majority will be tweaks of PHB or Everything options, as this is the new PHB.

I thought I’d seen a suggestion from them that each class would have at least 1 new subclass, but I could be wrong.

 

[TwoSix]

How are you defining "reprint?" Does it have to have the same mechanics, or the same concept, or just the same name? If they take an existing subclass and make some balance tweaks, and adjust it to fit with changes in the base class/core rules, is that a reprint?

I don't think we're likely to see many straight-up, copy-paste "reprints" like you'd see in a splatbook. But we'll have a lot of "polish and tweak" on existing materials... that's kind of the whole point of a new edition, or half edition, or quasi-edition, or whatever this thing is.

It has to be a new concept, or at the very least a heavily reimagined take on a previously existing subclass that just didn't work.

I mean, the whole point of this work being explicitly NOT a new edition is that older material remains viable. So there's no need to reprint material that already exists.

And since the new book isn't something I actually need, the only way for it to be a value add is to also be the next Xanathar's/Tasha's and give me a whole bunch of new material.

 

[Parmandur]

Considering the purpose of the new core books, almost certainly less than half will be new.

I can see a few, but at most any class needs 2 added subclasses, and with at least 1 new one for each class (being optimistic), I think the only classes that will have expansion subclasses will be the ones with only 2 phb subclasses.

I thought I’d seen a suggestion from them that each class would have at least 1 new subclass, but I could be wrong.

I do not recall that they promised a particular count of all new concepts, but I may have missed it. They did say there would be new ones, and gave College of Dance as the example and I douvt that it is the only one, so let's call it 2d6 new Subclasses for speculation purposes.

 

[Parmandur]

It has to be a new concept, or at the very least a heavily reimagined take on a previously existing subclass that just didn't work.

I mean, the whole point of this work being explicitly NOT a new edition is that older material remains viable. So there's no need to reprint material that already exists.

And since the new book isn't something I actually need, the only way for it to be a value add is to also be the next Xanathar's/Tasha's and give me a whole bunch of new material.

I mean, the main target is new players, we are all nice-to-haves for WotC. For me, if there is significant new art and the rules remain compatible, I'm in.

 

[TwoSix]

I mean, the main target is new players, we are all nice-to-haves for WotC. For me, if there is significant new art and the rules remain compatible, I'm in.

I understand all that. My main point of contention is that since new players neither know nor care what's already gone before, presumably, why not just also give them new options? It's not like there's anything special or precious about the 2014 subclasses or the Xanathar's or Tasha's ones that needs to be presented to those learning the game.