Unearthed Arcana Revived, Noble Genie and Archivist Revisited in UA

The latest Unearthed Arcana replaces the Revived, Noble Genie, and Archivist subclasses with new versions called the Phantom, the Genie, and the Order of Scribes. https://dnd.wizards.com/articles/unearthed-arcana/subclasses-revisited

The latest Unearthed Arcana replaces the Revived, Noble Genie, and Archivist subclasses with new versions called the Phantom, the Genie, and the Order of Scribes.

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Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Ki, Qi and Chi are not the same word by that logic, sorry. It's exactly the same situation that you're complaining about - Qi and Ki are anglicizations of the Chinese and Japanese words respectively, which are similar words which describe essentially but not exactly the same force. Chi is dubious anglicization of one of them, I presume Qi.

You can't have it both ways. If you'd gone with Qi and Chi and not thrown Ki in there to ruin your point it would have worked though.
Alright take Ki out then. Shows how well I know my Chinese from Japanese 😓
 

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Marandahir

Crown-Forester (he/him)
Interesting. I was severely nonplussed by these lists. Outside of Wish of course, that's great. These spells are like... okay? But the subclass doesn't even give them to you, they are just added to the Warlock list for you to have the option of spending selections on; Fireball and Wall of Stone are nice I guess, but I feel like there are just better options on the default list.

That's how Warlock Otherwordly Patrons work in general, though. They don't give you free castings of spells or additional spells known, they just expand your spell list so that you can choose from thematically appropriate lists for your patron if you so desire. It looks similar to some other subclass structures (many offer additional spells in some way for each particular subclass), but the way those spells are offered are rarely the same from class to class, largely due to balance needs - Warlocks cast few spells, frequently, with cool invocation dials.
 

Phazonfish

B-Rank Agent
That's how Warlock Otherwordly Patrons work in general, though. They don't give you free castings of spells or additional spells known, they just expand your spell list so that you can choose from thematically appropriate lists for your patron if you so desire. It looks similar to some other subclass structures (many offer additional spells in some way for each particular subclass), but the way those spells are offered are rarely the same from class to class, largely due to balance needs - Warlocks cast few spells, frequently, with cool invocation dials.

Oh, absolutely. I didn't expect them to give the Warlock the spells for free, I'm just saying that since they aren't free, the choices I am being given should include at least a couple impressive ones. I found them incredibly lackluster. I'm sure there will be plenty of people that disagree with me here, not least of all because a few of the spells on the list actually are pretty impressive in a vacuum, but I feel like the Warlock doesn't make as good use of them as other classes would.
 
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Marandahir

Crown-Forester (he/him)
Ki, Qi and Chi are not the same word by that logic, sorry. It's exactly the same situation that you're complaining about - Qi and Ki are anglicizations of the Chinese and Japanese words respectively, which are similar words which describe essentially but not exactly the same force. Chi is dubious anglicization of one of them, I presume Qi.

You can't have it both ways. If you'd gone with Qi and Chi and not thrown Ki in there to ruin your point it would have worked though.

Alright take Ki out then. Shows how well I know my Chinese from Japanese 😓

Ki and Qi are in fact the same concept and same force, just Anglicised differently and from different languages. Chi is the Wade-Gilson translation of Qi, from which we also had Canton instead of Guangzhou, and Peking instead of Beijing. Ki is the Romaji or Latin-letter form of the Japanese word, which was a loan from Chinese (as are MANY words in the Japanese lexicon, despite unrelated language families).

  • 氣 is the traditional Chinese character, Korean hanja, and Japanese kyūjitai ("old character form") kanji. This is read as Qi or Chi by translators to English from Chinese, and as Ki by translators from Japanese.
  • 気 is the Japanese shinjitai ("new character form") kanji (created so that writing and printing could be made quicker and easier).
  • 气 is the simplified Chinese character (same reason as the Japanese shinjitai, different country).

Obviously different cultural traditions will influence the development of the philosophy, but the Japanese and Chinese philosophers and martial artists would see these as fundamentally the same concept, though spoken of differently depending on the tradition they're trained in. Qigong practitioners don't speak of it the same way Aikido practictioners do. But Chinese, Japanese, Korean, Vietnamese martial artists all are using the same term at times, and they're speaking to the same force of energy, just in different cultural and traditional interpretations, passed down over the centuries.

D&D probably should have used the word Qi, but Ki is a sacred cow of the game, and Monk players would probably get confused if it changes. Just as real world Paladins were knights of Charlemagne's court, not generic holy knights bound by a specific type of oath, and real world Druids were the scholarly and priestly caste of Iron Age Celtic societies across Europe, not nature-wizards who can turn into animals. The narratives are related, but D&D is drawing on specific myths (such as the Druidess that helped Lugh's father and mother meet). With Monks, they're most specifically drawing on Shaolin martial arts traditions, but also on Japanese aikido and jujutsu and judo (and now kendo and aikiken with the kensei).

As for what this means for D&D?
Drow and Duergar are not literally the same word. Drow comes from the Scots Trow, Drow, Trowe, or Dtrow, which is actually from Norse Draugr (of Skyrim fame) meaning revenant. There is some folk etymology working though in Scotland that tied Trow to Troll as an alternative. That said, Duergar and Svartalfar both mean the same thing in – Dark Elf and Dwarf. The D&D Drow is a derivative by name from Draugr but by description from Svartalfar.

But D&D has sacred cows, and Dark Elves have been developed as separate from Dwarves for many decades in fiction, now. Same thing with Genie and Djinni. And Gorgon and Medusa. They all bother me when they're used to mean separate things, but the fictional history has changes things.

I think I'm most bothered by Genie and Djinni, though, because those are literally pronounced the same way. Maybe D&D designers pronounced Djinni as like "Jin-knee" rather than Jeanie, though? Seems pretty weird. I'm not sure there's a better encompassing term for them though. And Dao and Marids are completely unrelated in mythology (if anything served the Dao roll in Arabic tales, it's the Ghouls), but oh well. In Albanian lore, Xhindi (from Djinni) are aetherial Elves. We treat these things like they're so different and unrelated from each other, but it's all a spectrum and reinterpretation of tales as befits a culture's ideas.
 
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Marandahir

Crown-Forester (he/him)
I think that's a stretch, given how far apart some of the descriptions and understandings are. There are clearly very significant shared elements, but that's the point.
Just as far apart when the words are being used. Japanese writers will refer to Qigong concepts with the term Ki. That's just a fact of it. It's a word that has been applied to slightly different ideas in different cultures. But China is not a monolith either, and Qi doesn't mean the same thing to everyone in China, either. It's still the same word, and it's still the same concept.
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
Ki and Qi are in fact the same concept and same force, just Anglicised differently and from different languages.
Right, but the relationship between the words is closer to the relationship between duergar and drow than to that between genie and Djinni. @Ruin Explorer was correct that including it in the list weakened my argument. What I was trying to get at is that the various Germanic and English derivations of the proto-Germanic word đwergaz are different from each other in a way that the anglicization and the romanization of the Arabic word جن are not.
 

OB1

Jedi Master
Love these three subclasses, and feel like they are all close enough that they could make it into the fall book.

As for the Awakened Spellbook damage swap out, I think it would be much more on theme to gain an additional 1d4 spells known of your choice into the book each time you level up. Makes this Wizard much more versatile out the gate.
 

Marandahir

Crown-Forester (he/him)
Right, but the relationship between the words is closer to the relationship between duergar and drow than to that between genie and Djinni. @Ruin Explorer was correct that including it in the list weakened my argument. What I was trying to get at is that the various Germanic and English derivations of the proto-Germanic word đwergaz are different from each other in a way that the anglicization and the romanization of the Arabic word جن are not.
Drow and Duergar aren't closely related though? Dwergaz is the source for Dwarf, yes, but not for Drow. Germanic languages don't swap Dw -> Dr. Drow comes from norse Draugr (a type of undead revenant, akin to a Ghoul or Zombie).

Ki and Qi are literally two different languages approximation of the same word and concept. Or rather, they're literally the English-language approximation of two different languages' approximation of the same word and concept.

I'll grant that Genie and Djinni literally sound the same though when spoken, while Ki and Qi usually don't. That's a slight phonetic drift, and why I'm more bothered by Genie and Djinni than by say, Duergar and Dwarf.
 

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