Unearthed Arcana Revived, Noble Genie and Archivist Revisited in UA

The latest Unearthed Arcana replaces the Revived, Noble Genie, and Archivist subclasses with new versions called the Phantom, the Genie, and the Order of Scribes.

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[Marandahir]

I am skeptical that the words troll and draugr are related. They are both independently present in Old Norse.

Hence why the question of trowe = troll or trowe = draugr or some combination of the two is unclear.

As you'll see if you read the Orkney culture website linked above, the usage is difficult to line up, but believed to be more aligned with Draugr than Troll.

That said, the line between what is a Troll and what is a Draugr is much less clear in Old Norse than you make it out to be. Different terms have referred to the same mythic creatures, and the same term has referred to different mythic creatures. Our knowledge of Old Norse and usage is not as clear cut as reading Snorri might make one think.

And then of course, in Shetland, Trolls and Trowes are seen as separate creatures entirely - Trolls are more like the Norse Troll, and Trowes act more like the Norse Draugr.

Language drift. But this is all an aside - even if Drow were based on Trolls, the Norse stories don't make much of a connection between the Dwarves and the (Ice) Giants. Duergar=Drow is a misconception due to Svartalfar=Duergar=Dark Elf=Dwarf. Dark Elf is an appropriate term for a Dwarf in Norse myth. Drow is not.

But in D&D, Dark Elf=Drow, because Gygax. This is okay. Meanings shift.

 

[bedir than]

جن

Yeah, but the Arab world's relationship to Djinnis, Gens, Jins, etc are more complicated than the single word you mentioned here.
Signed, former Arabic linguist and Near Eastern Cultures student

 

[Marandahir]

FYI, Draugr is also etym. linked to the Druj of Avestan texts - the demonic beings of Indo-Aryan mythologies, later referred to as Daevas - from Hindu Deva, similar to how Babylonian deities were demonized by Abrahamic cultures. In earlier texts, the Hindu did not demonise the Asuras (Ahuras) and the Iranians didn't demonise the Daevas (Devas). These were a different class of spirits or gods that were not the focus of worship by those peoples.

MUCH like the nebulous position the Djinn are in in Arabic cultures, a comparison that didn't go unseen when the Persians and the Arabs have interacted over the millennia.

Thus, bringing us back full circle from Drow to Genie.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yeah, but the Arab world's relationship to Djinnis, Gens, Jins, etc are more complicated than the single word you mentioned here.
Signed, former Arabic linguist and Near Eastern Cultures student

For sure! Would you not agree though that it’s weird to call djinn a type of genie?

 

[Marandahir]

For sure! Would you not agree though that it’s weird to call djinn a type of genie?

Not going to speak for bedir than (would be very interested to hear their thoughts!), but I wanted to comment on this too.

From what I've understood, the Efreet are a variety of Djinni in some Arabic traditions (Ifrit of the Jinn/Efreet from the Djinn), while in others they are separate but related beings (in the same sense that Sylph, Salamander, Ondine, and Gnome are related in Paracelsus's writings). Meanwhile, Marid and Ifrit/Efreet are used somewhat interchangeably, and Dao doesn't exist (but Ghuls/Ghouls do). Sometimes Djinn are demons, sometimes they're angels or deities (esp. if referring to neighbouring cultures' gods & idols), sometimes they're nature spirits, sometimes they're faeries/elves, sometimes they're the in-between between angels and demons… It depends on writer/storyteller/time period/setting.

Still weird to use Genie as inclusive of Djinni, but I gather the idea was to have Genie mean the broader usage that includes Efreet, and Djinni the more specific, air-elemental usage of the term. It's weird, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone writing their own fantasy setting, but these sorts of nebulousities are not entirely unsurprising.

 

[Chaosmancer]

For sure! Would you not agree though that it’s weird to call djinn a type of genie?

Weird sure, but mostly because they aren't tiny little animal creatures like in Golden Sun

 

[Parmandur]

Not going to speak for bedir than (would be very interested to hear their thoughts!), but I wanted to comment on this too.

From what I've understood, the Efreet are a variety of Djinni in some Arabic traditions (Ifrit of the Jinn/Efreet from the Djinn), while in others they are separate but related beings (in the same sense that Sylph, Salamander, Ondine, and Gnome are related in Paracelsus's writings). Meanwhile, Marid and Ifrit/Efreet are used somewhat interchangeably, and Dao doesn't exist (but Ghuls/Ghouls do). Sometimes Djinn are demons, sometimes they're angels or deities (esp. if referring to neighbouring cultures' gods & idols), sometimes they're nature spirits, sometimes they're faeries/elves, sometimes they're the in-between between angels and demons… It depends on writer/storyteller/time period/setting.

Still weird to use Genie as inclusive of Djinni, but I gather the idea was to have Genie mean the broader usage that includes Efreet, and Djinni the more specific, air-elemental usage of the term. It's weird, and I wouldn't recommend it to anyone writing their own fantasy setting, but these sorts of nebulousities are not entirely unsurprising.

D&D gotta D&D.

Honestly, I'd be grouchy if they tried to fix these silly points now, they have their own peculiar nonsense integrity, just like actual folklore...

 

[Charlaquin]

Weird sure, but mostly because they aren't tiny little animal creatures like in Golden Sun

In Golden Sun they’re all Djinn regardless of element though.

 

[Charlaquin]

D&D gotta D&D.

Honestly, I'd be grouchy if they tried to fix these silly points now, they have their own peculiar nonsense integrity, just like actual folklore...

I think it mostly bothers me because they are pronounced the same. Again, it’s like if faerie was a type of fairy. Even if it has its own internal logic, it just sounds wrong when spoken aloud.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Forgive me for my lack of knowledge of lore because I'm sure that is about to be made apparant, but if the djinni are speaking Auran isn't the common language Primordial? Though I suppose it's not specific to genies.

Well, multiple things.

For one, 5E isn't terribly sure that Primordial is a thing. It's mentioned in the PHB, as I recall, but then in the Monster Manual, all the races that you'd think would speak it instead speak a specific elemental language instead.

But the genie language -- and it's killing me that I don't recall it -- also spoke to genies being a unified culture, even if all four-plus groups didn't always get along. Efreet would see dao as their peers (even if they look down on them) much more than they would salamanders or mephits, for instance.

Finally, from a thematic standpoint, the language of genies is great flavor. While many spellcasters would use Draconic, Infernal or Celestial in their spellcasting, an Arabian Nights-flavored conjurer doesn't have any real connection to any of those groups. But reciting their spells in the language of genies? That's got style.