Richard Baker on Orcus and Deity Slaying

[Elsenrail]

I only hope they get rid of the overgods (because its confusing*). Greater powers are enough. There are some imprisoned primordials as well.

*I don't like the idea that there is a Big Brother whose job is to maintain neutrality and stability of the cosmos. The universe is all about possibilities for the PCs. If they want to shake its foundations, so be it. It's a game.

It seems the whole concept of deities is similar to Greek ones. They are strong, but they can be outfoxed and beaten. Hercules was a demigod, but he couldn't take an army single-handily.

 

[Doug McCrae]

In my opinion these are the good ways to handle the gods:

1. Distant and unknowable. May not exist at all. Cannot be killed.
2. Walk around on Earth, get in the PCs' faces and are generally annoying. Can be killed.


And this is the bad, wrong way:

1. Walk around on Earth, get in the PCs' faces and are generally annoying. Cannot be killed.

 

[ruleslawyer]

Are you citing badwrongfun, Doug?

Seriously, I agree with you 100%. Making the gods unwieldy 60th-level monstrosities like 3e did was IMO the worst approach. I actually didn't mind the 2e approach so much, with its separation of gods into plot devices (who couldn't visit the Material Plane) and fightable monsters (avatars), but I found the 3e approach nigh-useless.

 

[WyzardWhately]

I like the idea that there are numerous different kinds of greater powers, and any or all of them can be served by supernaturally imbued mortals (clerics, essentially.) This ranges from the great big Demon-crocodile god that a high-end Heroic party could potentially slay, to regional god-kings that are mid-to-high Paragon solos by themselves, to extra-planar beings like the aforementioned jumped-up angels and demons, to things above that, the planar divinities that have portfolio-style power over aspects of the Prime, to those inscrutable powers from the Far Realms...etc.

If any of these things are eternal, they are so only in a sort of cyclical sense, and how inscrutable they are depends a lot on where you are in relation to them. So, the Great Old One equivalents are as incomprehensible to the Level 15 Pharaoh-esque God-King as the Pharaoh's intricate byzantine plots are to the illiterate but HUNGRY crocodile-god.

I, too, want to know how many people the PCs need to have worshipping them before they can grant spells to their clerics. This is relevant to my interests, you see.

 

[WyzardWhately]

In my opinion these are the good ways to handle the gods:

1. Distant and unknowable. May not exist at all. Cannot be killed.
2. Walk around on Earth, get in the PCs' faces and are generally annoying. Can be killed.


And this is the bad, wrong way:

1. Walk around on Earth, get in the PCs' faces and are generally annoying. Cannot be killed.

I think we're more or less on the same page. My preference is to definitely have option 2, and maybe option 1 as well, in the same world.

 

[Shemeska]

Not my cup of tea (statted gods and archfiends), but I can respect the 1e nostalgia of having PCs fighting them directly (and to be fair, I once let a PC suckerpunch the Oinoloth).

However, that said, giving the reason that greater gods don't just go kill Orcus as being that Grazzt or Demogorgon might be lurking around like a tagteam of The Million Dollar Man and Ultimate Warrior to help out Orcus's Andre the Giant?

I'm joking. Mostly. Kinda. The reasoning just doesn't work for me.

 

[med stud]

After reading the novels by Steven Erikson (great reads btw), I'm all sold on this idea! In his books the goods are very powerful, but still slayable. There are also beings on the world that are more powerful than the gods.

After reading those novels I got my head full of campaign ideas for a 4e game. God slaying is one of them

 

[Goobermunch]

Bah! Everyone knows that Demogorgon's tougher than that goat-faced upstart

At least until Orcus gets his hands on the GSL.

--G

 

[Chocobo]

I hope not. Or at least, I hope the point of it isn't to add non-ending level advancement like the 3e version did. Doing this really screws with the meta-setting if you've already established the most powerful beings in the multiverse as being in the 30's, level wise.

I wouldn't say it is out of the question for the eventual Deities and Demigods book to include rules for playing in the Immortal tier (31-40). BECMI did it after all, and the quoted article did say "last big adventure your characters have as mortal heroes".

 

[Elsenrail]

You can become immortal before reaching 30th level. Lichedom, becoming a shade, perhaps as a monk, vampire.