Rings of Power -- all opinions and spoilers welcome thread.

[Jfdlsjfd]

I am not sure elves are supposed to be relatable.

 

[MarkB]

I am not sure elves are supposed to be relatable.

Yeah, well, characters in a TV show are supposed to be relatable.

 

[Maxperson]

I thought the way they handled it was pretty good. He started out by flattering Celebrimbor so that the smith was then effectively showing off to him, and none of his suggestions appeared to be based in actual knowledge - they were just providing a different perspective that let Celebrimbor see another angle while still not questioning the human's lack of any real knowledge.

The problem is that it didn't allow Celebrimbor to see any angle that he wouldn't have thought of immediately on his own. Celebrimbor wasn't just a smith. He wasn't even just a master smith. Hell, he wasn't even just a grand master smith. He was so good and knowledgeable that he made grand master smiths look like novices. There was nothing said or done in the show that could have or would have helped.

Annatar only succeeded because he had actual magic secrets of forging that the elves had not discovered yet and was sharing those "gifts."

And frankly, if you play up the elven smiths as being so far beyond human knowledge as to make humans utterly irrelevant, you lose your audience, because the whole thing is then occurring on a level for which we have no reference point - the difference between "inhumanly skilled elven craftsman" and "even more inhumanly skilled maiar craftsman" becomes imperceptible from our viewpoint, and leaves no reference by which we can discern whether one or another suggestion or deception is good or bad.

You don't need to. You just present Sauron as being from Aman and coming with new secrets/magical glyphs to allow success. Relative skill didn't need to play into it, because the die hard fans would be aware of said skill and the others wouldn't need to be told about it.

By doing it the way they did, they could only anger the die hard fans while not actually giving anything more than the above would have given.

 

[Maxperson]

Yeah, well, characters in a TV show are supposed to be relatable.

I couldn't really relate to the Predator, the Alien, ET and others. Not all characters need to be relatable or completely relatable. Elves can be both relatable and mysterious. Galadriel was both in LotR. No good reason that Celebrimbor couldn't have been the same in this show.

 

[Ryujin]

I am not sure elves are supposed to be relatable.

I would think that they are supposed to be relatable in the same way that the Greek Gods are relatable. They have the same failings as humans, just.... BIGGER.

 

[Maxperson]

I would think that they are supposed to be relatable in the same way that the Greek Gods are relatable. They have the same failings as humans, just.... BIGGER.

And with capabilities far beyond any man.

 

[Ryujin]

The problem is that it didn't allow Celebrimbor to see any angle that he wouldn't have thought of immediately on his own. Celebrimbor wasn't just a smith. He wasn't even just a master smith. Hell, he wasn't even just a grand master smith. He was so good and knowledgeable that he made grand master smiths look like novices. There was nothing said or done in the show that could have or would have helped.

Annatar only succeeded because he had actual magic secrets of forging that the elves had not discovered yet and was sharing those "gifts."

You don't need to. You just present Sauron as being from Aman and coming with new secrets/magical glyphs to allow success. Relative skill didn't need to play into it, because the die hard fans would be aware of said skill and the others wouldn't need to be told about it.

By doing it the way they did, they could only anger the die hard fans while not actually giving anything more than the above would have given.

I don't really know that they're at all interested in playing to the "die hard fans", given the way that they've gone with the story. They're more going for fans of the movies which is, by a rather massive margin, a much larger demographic.

 

[Ryujin]

And with capabilities far beyond any man.

Which makes the inevitable fall all the further.

 

[MarkB]

The problem is that it didn't allow Celebrimbor to see any angle that he wouldn't have thought of immediately on his own. Celebrimbor wasn't just a smith. He wasn't even just a master smith. Hell, he wasn't even just a grand master smith. He was so good and knowledgeable that he made grand master smiths look like novices.

That doesn't mean he's not going to get stumped when working with a brand-new material under extreme time pressure.

There was nothing said or done in the show that could have or would have helped.

So basically any possible solution would have to be utterly incomprehensible to the audience. Got it.

I couldn't really relate to the Predator, the Alien, ET and others. Not all characters need to be relatable or completely relatable.

The Predator and the Alien are antagonists, and they're still easy enough to understand. The Predator likes hunting and collecting trophies, the Alien is all about hunger and survival.

ET was pretty relatable. He's just someone lost and terrified who's trying to find his way home.

Elves can be both relatable and mysterious. Galadriel was both in LotR. No good reason that Celebrimbor couldn't have been the same in this show.

If we're going to be spending a lot of time with the elves, there's a limit to how mysterious and otherworldly they can be. Galadriel was mysterious for a few scenes. Legolas was a relatable travelling companion for three movies.

 

[Maxperson]

I don't really know that they're at all interested in playing to the "die hard fans", given the way that they've gone with the story. They're more going for fans of the movies which is, by a rather massive margin, a much larger demographic.

That wasn't what I said, though. By doing it the way I suggested, it makes no difference whatsoever to the people who know nothing about the books. So they wouyld be playing to the fans of movies and shows just the same as they are now, not the die hard fans. They just wouldn't be kicking the die hard fans in the nads at the same time like they are now. It would be win/win instead of win/lose.