Rituals take too long and creative casting is dead

[Incenjucar]

Creative would be using a Mending spell as a way to set off a specially-designed trap.

 

[IceFractal]

Which isn't creative at all. It's standard.

That was my point - neither spells or skills are inherently creative. Which I was mentioning because some people seem to be claiming that solving problems with skills is inherently "better" than solving them with spells.

That's not creative. That's lucky.

It's not hugely creative, but there is a bit of creativity in picking a good selection of spells for the day. It's not just luck, it's a calculated risk to prepare that spell, which paid off.

 

[Fifth Element]

I find this love of the skill challenge system frankly absurd. Its something that most DM's were basically doing as far back as secondary skills in 2e

Wait, so they put something in the rules that many DMs were already doing, and we're not supposed to like it? Wouldn't the fact that many DMs were doing it already imply that many of us already like it?

 

[SSquirrel]

None of those are new tools. All of those skills existed before and all of their uses were possible before. I find this love of the skill challenge system frankly absurd. Its something that most DM's were basically doing as far back as secondary skills in 2e, all they did is copy and paste some of the advice from the World of darkness books on how to work skill tests and change the name marginally to skill challenge.

Hey great for you if you had (or were) a DM doing this for your group during 3E. None of my DMs ever did and I didn't play for a large chunk of the time 3.5 was out so I never bought Unearthed Arcana to see the specific variant mentioned by some people that came from that book. No it isn't a brand new idea, but it's the first time it's been front and center in the core book of the game.

 

[PeterWeller]

All I ask is a little consideration when replying to different people as We are in the US with a Language which has some of the Lowest literacy rates in the world in comparison to other languages.

El

This is totally incorrect. The US has one of the highest literacy rates in the world. We have practical universal literacy. English speakers are amongst the most literate language users, and English has a significantly higher literacy rate than the world's other two most common languages: Spanish and (Mandarin) Chinese.

 

[The Little Raven]

That was my point - neither spells or skills are inherently creative. Which I was mentioning because some people seem to be claiming that solving problems with skills is inherently "better" than solving them with spells.

Most people think skills are better than spells because it spreads the workload around rather than the wizard doing everything, since his spells achieve the job way better than any other class.

It's not hugely creative, but there is a bit of creativity in picking a good selection of spells for the day. It's not just luck, it's a calculated risk to prepare that spell, which paid off.

But that's still not creativity. That's a matter of chance. It's a strategic choice with consequences, I'll fully agree, but it's not creativity in the slightest.

 

[Amphimir Míriel]

None of those are new tools. All of those skills existed before and all of their uses were possible before. I find this love of the skill challenge system frankly absurd. Its something that most DM's were basically doing as far back as secondary skills in 2e, all they did is copy and paste some of the advice from the World of darkness books on how to work skill tests and change the name marginally to skill challenge. Other then that though i agree.

The fact that Skill Challenges are so easy to understand, to the point of being almost obvious, is a part of its brilliance.

Paraphrasing Einstein, everyone can make a complicated rule, but making a simple, yet effective rule takes real inspiration.

Now, I do remember the similar "opposed rolls" mechanic from the White Wolf games. However, I never saw anybody using it as a "full encounter", worthy of xp and other rewards. YMMV, though.

 

[Slife]

The impossibility of making a decent illusionist has made 4e a no-sell for me. This isn't the only problem I have with the edition, just an example of the systematic issues I have with it. I'm glad I can read about it online before buying.

 

[Ottergame]

The impossibility of making a decent illusionist has made 4e a no-sell for me. This isn't the only problem I have with the edition, just an example of the systematic issues I have with it. I'm glad I can read about it online before buying.

That's... really not true. 4e has a good number of illusions.

 

[hong]

But who plays DnD with a guy who trys to move in on my character's schtick? I don't know about you but I play with my friends.

In games terms...why would a wizard who has chosen to ally himself with a party that includes a rogue waste his precious spells on invisibility, knock, and illusions.

No, I do not think it would be a good idea to give fighters the ability to cast fireballs that they can then decline to use if they have a wizard in the party.