D&D 5E (2024) Rogue abilities help

[TaranTheWanderer]

I'm wondering about a good way to build a non-magic using Thief rogue. It seems like dual wielding is the no-brainer way to play a rogue these days with vex and nick but we are taking 3.5 characters and making them into 5e so the fighter/barbarian is doing the double weapon style thing so it seems kind of repetitive to do the same.

In 3e, my rogue had dodge and Weapon Finesse. Of course, now in 5e, weapon finesse is on every weapon. The plan had been to go dodge, mobility, spring attack but, of course, cunning action does all that stuff now.

so I"m stuck on what to take as a feat. Sentinel looks good for getting an extra off-turn attack. Skulker seems good - especially for 10 foot blind sight but sneaky builds don't promote team work. I hate having to sneak ahead while everyone else picks their nose.

Ranged seems like a bad idea since we have a squishy wizard and the warlock is ranged. The barbarian will be the only one front line and will probably need support.

Anyways, we are level 4: rogue, barbarian, Wizard and Warlock hexblade with pistols.

I feel like there's very few good options for a rogue and weapon masteries just pigeon hole me into dual wielding.

Edit: I'm curious about Crossbow expert but it seems fiddly and I don't quite understand how it works. How do you load your crossbow when you have your hands full of hand crossbows?

Any Advice?

 

[aco175]

It does seem set up to duel wield in 5.5 with a dagger for free. There is nothing wrong with it, but does feel like pigeonholing if you want something else.

If you take the mobility feat, you can use cunning action for something else. Alert lets you swap initiative with someone else if you want to go first or sometimes last.

 

[Maxperson]

I've always been fond of Dungeon Delver for rogues. Since 5.5e didn't redo the Dungeon Delver feat, the 5e version is still a valid pick.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

It does seem set up to duel wield in 5.5 with a dagger for free. There is nothing wrong with it, but does feel like pigeonholing if you want something else.

If you take the mobility feat, you can use cunning action for something else. Alert lets you swap initiative with someone else if you want to go first or sometimes last.

Interesting. No mobile feat in 2024. It's called Speedy and it does almost the exact same thing except instead of no AoO, it's disadvantage to AoO.

I have alert already because of criminal background. We are playing scoundrels(to put it mildly) so criminal was the natural choice for a background.

I've always been fond of Dungeon Delver for rogues. Since 5.5e didn't redo the Dungeon Delver feat, the 5e version is still a valid pick.

I actually haven't thought to look at 5e2014 feats. I'll have a gander.

 

[mellored]

Sentinel is great with a barbarian. They will get hit often, and you get attacks. Remember sneak attack is once per turn, so rogue have the best opportunity attacks. Still probably want to pick up Nick though. You don't have much else in your other hand.

For something different, try Slasher (slow 10') and a Whip (slow 10'). If in a good position, you can use Steady Aim to make sure you hit, and then Withdrawal to move 15' away, while they can only move 10'. Or just stand behind the barbarian and attack. Rogues don't lose much damage going whip.


You should carry a ranged weapon no matter what else you pick. Even if you don't take mastery in it.

And if you could say more about your allies (subclass, spells, level) then there might be other synergies to consider.

 

[ECMO3]

I'm wondering about a good way to build a non-magic using Thief rogue. It seems like dual wielding is the no-brainer way to play a rogue these days with vex and nick but we are taking 3.5 characters and making them into 5e so the fighter/barbarian is doing the double weapon style thing so it seems kind of repetitive to do the same.

In 3e, my rogue had dodge and Weapon Finesse. Of course, now in 5e, weapon finesse is on every weapon. The plan had been to go dodge, mobility, spring attack but, of course, cunning action does all that stuff now.

so I"m stuck on what to take as a feat. Sentinel looks good for getting an extra off-turn attack. Skulker seems good - especially for 10 foot blind sight but sneaky builds don't promote team work. I hate having to sneak ahead while everyone else picks their nose.

Ranged seems like a bad idea since we have a squishy wizard and the warlock is ranged. The barbarian will be the only one front line and will probably need support.

Anyways, we are level 4: rogue, barbarian, Wizard and Warlock hexblade with pistols.

I feel like there's very few good options for a rogue and weapon masteries just pigeon hole me into dual wielding.

Edit: I'm curious about Crossbow expert but it seems fiddly and I don't quite understand how it works. How do you load your crossbow when you have your hands full of hand crossbows?

Any Advice?

I don't particularly like a non-magic thief.

If I were going to do it I would go high Intelligence and get Truestrike on a Species or Origin Feat. Without that Thief is going to be heavily reliant on magic items like Wands and in late play Scrolls in combat.

Truestrike really amps your sneak attack in three ways, first it gives you radiant damage option to bypass resistance, second it adds extra damage and third it lets you buff Intelligence which you are going to want anyway after level 11 so you can use 9th level scrolls reliably.

In any case whether you get Truestrike or not, a Thief's schtick is all around their bonus action. Make sure you have enough equipment that you can always use your bonus:
1. Take expertise in Slight of Hand so you can use chains, rope, manacles etc more reliably with your bonus action.

2. Carry lots of Ball Bearings, Caltrops, Torches and Oil.

3. Get magic items as fast as possible, here are some good ones by rarity:
Uncommon: Pipes of Haunting
Rare: Wand of Fear, Wand of Paralysis, Mace of Terror
Very Rare: Staff of Thunder and Lightning, Horn of Valhalla

 

[Kobold Stew]

Building a Non-Magic Using Thief Rogue is fine and, really, don't worry about not being the top damage dealer. You don't need to hold your action or dual wield, though of course you can.

1. Most subclasses as Rogues don't actually give you a lot. For non-magic using, Assassin gives you better combat abilities (and some criminal proficiencies, which seem to work well with your story); Thief gives you out-of-combat utility and Utilize as a Bonus. You've chosen the latter, but that choice has its consequences.

As a Thief, what are you going to Utilize? Are you picking pockets and things during combat? If so, that'll be fun. Are you using all the many mundane things in the equipment list? If so, that'll be fun It won't consistently do damage, but you'll remember and love the character. But you're doing that INSTEAD OF Cunning Action. So you're not hiding in combat all the time, or disengaging. And that too will shape your rogue.

2. You say you are hesitating over crossbow expert; if you're not juggling hand crossbows, you may be better with Sharpshooter. Now you can use a light crossbow in range or melee, not worry about cover, etc. You suddenly become really versatile.

3. Mage Slayer is another good feat, and still lets you boost your Dex (assuming it's at an odd number right now). It's defensive, but I suspect you will use the benefit often enough.

4. I've not played a Rogue with Sentinel, but if you're prepared to be hit, then having it and diving into melee might be a way to get more SAs off.

5. Skulker would work well with Assassin, and any blindsight could be very useful, but it'll be less effective, since it benefits from using Cunning Action to hide.

Hope this helps.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

And if you could say more about your allies (subclass, spells, level) then there might be other synergies to consider.

Low magic world. Something happened to make magic users unable to use their magic in the traditional means. Some very, very few people developed magic. Magic items are how wizards are keeping up the illusion that their magic still works. They can cast the spells they memorized before magic went away but they cannot rememorize them so, as soon as they cast their spell slots, those slots are gone forever.

No clerics because the gods disappeared 400 years ago.
Elves disappeared with the gods.
There are druids.
Old Magic items work.

About a year before the current time, a black cloud appeared over the Central Mountains and all wizardly magic stopped working. Then a massive dwarven army came out and is steam-rolling the human cities.

Our characters are from the furthest Eastern portion of the continent. There is no war there as there is a huge swamp and stuff that separates the warzone from the East. It's been raining in the swamp for a full year and the way is blocked. (but we got through and stopped the rain - Dwarves paid off a druid)

Or characters heard about the war happening, did some adventures, made some money stole weapons and armour and are delivering it to the Trade Post on the edge of the war zone. The Trade Post is cut off so we are going to sell the supplies and try to get rich. Maybe try to hire mercenaries and make our own mercenary group and try to profit off the war.

We are all 4th

• The wizard is a necromancer(2014 version) who hates his noble father and wants to build power to ruin him
• The Barbarian Battle Rager uses shield bash. His tactic is to knock people prone. That's why I though sentinel would be good. He's got anger issues and wants to become a War Lord
• The Rogue (me) is following the other two because money seems to follow them wherever they go. He was a poor street thief before he met them. He is often bored and has little regard for local law and can sometimes be impulsive in his decision making (social norms bounce off him hard)
• The Orc Warlock Hex Blade we haven't met yet. He was an indentured servant to a wizard who lost his magic. The wizard was doing experiments on him trying to figure how to make magic again. He accidently possessed the a dwarven flint-lock pistol with the spirits of its past victims and it bound itself to the orc slave. The orc slave killed the wizard and will meet us at the Trade Post (we are working on a background connection)

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Building a Non-Magic Using Thief Rogue is fine and, really, don't worry about not being the top damage dealer. You don't need to hold your action or dual wield, though of course you can.

1. Most subclasses as Rogues don't actually give you a lot. For non-magic using, Assassin gives you better combat abilities (and some criminal proficiencies, which seem to work well with your story); Thief gives you out-of-combat utility and Utilize as a Bonus. You've chosen the latter, but that choice has its consequences.

As a Thief, what are you going to Utilize? Are you picking pockets and things during combat? If so, that'll be fun. Are you using all the many mundane things in the equipment list? If so, that'll be fun It won't consistently do damage, but you'll remember and love the character. But you're doing that INSTEAD OF Cunning Action. So you're not hiding in combat all the time, or disengaging. And that too will shape your rogue.

We probably won't combat a lot...although, 3.5 was more deadly so we tried to avoid combat where possible at lower levels. 5e might make us braver. I have caltrops and stuff but there is very little magic. Unless we run into fully stocked wizards who use magic items to keep up the illusion they can still cast spells.

2. You say you are hesitating over crossbow expert; if you're not juggling hand crossbows, you may be better with Sharpshooter. Now you can use a light crossbow in range or melee, not worry about cover, etc. You suddenly become really versatile.

It's more that I don't know, mechanically how people use two cross bows. Do you drop them? You have several loaded and ready to go??? IDK. I've never used the feat. Fast hands lets me reload with a crossbow but I'm not sure I want to use my bonus action loading.

3. Mage Slayer is another good feat, and still lets you boost your Dex (assuming it's at an odd number right now). It's defensive, but I suspect you will use the benefit often enough.

Yeah, no wizards or clerics....but there are warlocks and the occasional sorcerer...and druids...

4. I've not played a Rogue with Sentinel, but if you're prepared to be hit, then having it and diving into melee might be a way to get more SAs off.

Once he's 5th, he'll be braver in combat. But I'm leaning hard towards this

5. Skulker would work well with Assassin, and any blindsight could be very useful, but it'll be less effective, since it benefits from using Cunning Action to hide.

The out of combat uses for this feat are great. Especially in a world where not very many people have access to darkvision - it's almost all humans. We aren't allowed to play dwarves. It might make me lean towards kiting more than advancing.

 

[Kobold Stew]

Sounds like you've got some ideas here.

We probably won't combat a lot...although, 3.5 was more deadly so we tried to avoid combat where possible at lower levels. 5e might make us braver. I have caltrops and stuff but there is very little magic. Unless we run into fully stocked wizards who use magic items to keep up the illusion they can still cast spells.

Thief is the right choice, then.

It's more that I don't know, mechanically how people use two cross bows. Do you drop them? You have several loaded and ready to go??? IDK. I've never used the feat. Fast hands lets me reload with a crossbow but I'm not sure I want to use my bonus action loading.

The logic isn't tight, but with the feat, you don't need to juggle:

• the feat means you get to ignore the loading property. This means that a crossbow functions just like a short bow would -- still two handed, but no limits on extra attack, etc.
• the feat also means that you don't need to draw/stow weapons as you switch from melee to ranged. It solves a lot of problems.
• with any ammunition, the removal from the case, nocking, and drawing the weapon is part of the attack.
• the dual wielding ability lets you use two hand crossbows simultaneously (gunfighter style), and add your ability mod both times. This does use your bonus action. If you also had extra Attack (e.g. from Fighter 5) you could make three attacks.

With a light or heavy crosssbow, Sharpshooter is better: no issues of partial cover, and no penalty for long range, but you still get to use it in melee.

Yeah, no wizards or clerics....but there are warlocks and the occasional sorcerer...and druids...

It sounds like you have better options at 4 in any case.

Once he's 5th, he'll be braver in combat. But I'm leaning hard towards this

The out of combat uses for this feat are great. Especially in a world where not very many people have access to darkvision - it's almost all humans. We aren't allowed to play dwarves. It might make me lean towards kiting more than advancing.

Both are solid choices! Let us know what you choose.