D&D 5E (2014) Rogue and Archer Character Sheets

[Dausuul]

Hmm. Interesting changes to sneak attack. It does more damage now (starting at level 3), but they also took away the easy tricks for getting advantage/SA. Rogues will now have to be more creative when it comes to getting their bonus damage. Unless the combat rules have been changed to incorporate flanking or a flanking-equivalent?

Edit: Apparently my brain is defective this morning. I completely overlooked the second half of the Sneak Attack description. My mistake.

 

[Nebulous]

Hmm. Interesting changes to sneak attack. It does more damage now (starting at level 3), but they also took away the easy tricks for getting advantage/SA. Rogues will now have to be more creative when it comes to getting their bonus damage. Unless the combat rules have been changed to incorporate flanking or a flanking-equivalent?

so how does it work now?

 

[Nebulous]

Best example of a barbarian and rogue working together to fend off enemies:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3If0rjk76I

 

[1of3]

Hmm. Interesting changes to sneak attack. It does more damage now (starting at level 3), but they also took away the easy tricks for getting advantage/SA. Rogues will now have to be more creative when it comes to getting their bonus damage. Unless the combat rules have been changed to incorporate flanking or a flanking-equivalent?

The sneak attack feature inclues a flanking equaivalent. You can sneak whenever an ally is in contact with the target, unless you have disadvantage. It's very easy.

 

[Dausuul]

so how does it work now?

Never mind, my mistake. Somehow my brain just pretended the second bit of the Sneak Attack description didn't exist.

 

[Iosue]

I have to admit, I'm pretty surprised by these Rogue changes.

We were all arguing over the Rogue from October, a few weeks ago, and I think people made some great points about how October Rogue's big skill bonuses and lots of extra skills and so on gave him a really big edge that could be leveraged in combat. And we were going on the Assassin Rogue, too, not the non-Assassin one. In the end, I kind of bought their arguments (whether I showed it or not! ), and assumed we'd see a skills-y Rogue in 5E.

Seems like this has gone the other way, though - there's LESS, waaaaaaay less of a skill gap between this Rogue and the other classes. He's much less of a skill monkey, and isn't going to be able to leverage those skills in the same way with much lower values.

[snip]

So I kind of feel like WotC listened to my whinging about Rogues not doing enough damage.

But I kind of wish they didn't take the skills away. I dunno how I feel about all this!

This is totally an old school thief, not a rogue. A vicious sneak attack, thieves' cant, and a bevy of specialized thiefly abilities that other characters can't dip into. The mechanics are different, of course, but the shape of the class is the same, especially once they hit 3rd level.

One hopes and surmises that non-thief rogues will make an appearance with the PHB. Maybe a 3e-ish skill monkey and a 4e-ish striker. As for this thief, it gives me the same impression as modern Japanese sake brewing: a traditional core combined with new methods to provide even more delicious products.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

This is totally an old school thief, not a rogue. A vicious sneak attack, thieves' cant, and a bevy of specialized thiefly abilities that other characters can't dip into. The mechanics are different, of course, but the shape of the class is the same, especially once they hit 3rd level.

In a sense, yeah. 2E Thieves had a really unreliable backstab, though, not a vicious, reliable SA, so that's quite a big change. It was hard to use outside of surprise and Invisibility magic, and relied on the Thief's somewhat crummy THAC0 (which didn't play nice with the high ACs of enemies in 2E) and typically less than stellar damage (though x5 was sweet). It's more like what 2E Thieves dreamed of being!

(It's also very similar to the 4E Essentials Thief)

One hopes and surmises that non-thief rogues will make an appearance with the PHB. Maybe a 3e-ish skill monkey and a 4e-ish striker. As for this thief, it gives me the same impression as modern Japanese sake brewing: a traditional core combined with new methods to provide even more delicious products.

I'll be surprised if they don't have some other interesting ones in the PHB. I'd expect Assassin for sure, as it was in the playtest. No doubt more will emerge as 5E continues, too.

 

[Sword of Spirit]

Maybe you get more at higher levels?

That's my guess. Pushing some of them back helps weaken level dips.

 

[CM]

I can't wait to see if rogue styles and other such class specializations are flexible enough to add some with supernatural abilities, such as a shadow master rogue, or a 4e-style thunderborn barbarian

 

[ccooke]

I can't wait to see if rogue styles and other such class specializations are flexible enough to add some with supernatural abilities, such as a shadow master rogue, or a 4e-style thunderborn barbarian

Well, the playtest barbarian included a supernatural subclass...