Rogue with telling blow

[Ceska]

Assume there´s a Rogue with the telling blow feat (PHB II) and he flanks an opponent with an ally. Now, the Rogue strikes a critical hit (and thus triggers the telling blow).

So, how do I calculate damage?

A: Weapon damage (and other damage like strength, magical bonus etc)x critical multiplier + Sneak damage (for flanking) + Sneak damage (telling blow)

or

B: Weapon damage (and other damage like strength, magical bonus etc)x critical multiplier + Sneak damage (for flanking)

or

or C: Weapon damage (and other damage like strength, magical bonus etc)x critical multiplier + Sneak damage (telling blow)


I think it´s A, but I´m a bit unsure, because it seems very strong to me. Thoughts/suggestions anyone?

Thanx for helping me IA!

 

[anon]

A.

Why would the normally applied sneak/skirmish damage not apply?

 

[Ceska]

Well, I´ve forgot to say, in most of the games I play, there´s no confirming criticals (not my idea!!!). Score a crit and it´s a crit, no matter what. And since my (melee oriented) Rogue has a keen scimitar and the Island of Blades Stance ( 1 level in Swordsage), I see a lot of these situations arise.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

My group thinks that Sneak Attack dice is Sneak Attack dice, even if it's being added from a different ability like Telling Blow. So, in my games, the attack described above would only get one fistful of extra dice, either from Telling Blow or Sneak Attack.
I am of the opinion that they are separate abilities, and should be added separately, much like a Flaming Burst weapon adds extra dice on a hit, and even more extra dice on a crit.
Sure, the rogue might shine in certain situations, but if his feats are going toward "make my crits better" abilities, then the character is at a disadvantage vs the many many creatures out there that are concealed or immune to crits and SA.

 

[Sejs]

You would apply sneak attack damage once, not twice - so B or C, either one, take your pick.

Telling Blow basically lets you sneak attack via crits even in situations where you wouldn't otherwise qualify for sneak attacks. It wouldn't let you double up sneak attack damage. If it did, it would say so.

 

[Hypersmurf]

As another example, let's say you land an attack on a creature who is flat-footed and whom you are flanking.

Would you apply twice your Sneak Attack dice?

The answer is no; the creature is denied his Dex bonus, therefore the attack is a sneak attack. The creature is flanked, therefore the attack is a sneak attack. The creature is denied his Dex bonus and is flanked, therefore the attack is a sneak attack.

The attack is a sneak attack, so you add your normal extra damage dice.

Similarly, if you score a Telling Blow critical hit on a creature you are flanking: the creature is flanked, therefore the attack is a sneak attack. The attack was a critical, therefore the attack is a sneak attack. The creature is flanked and the attack was a critical, therefore the attack is a sneak attack.

-Hyp.

 

[Ceska]

Thank you guys for clearing this up, my DM will be very relieved to hear that.

 

[anon]

Sneak Attack and Telling Blow are different abilities.

One can qualify for one, the other, or both.

Nothing in the feat description implies, as I read it, that one wouldn't get Sneak Attack damage if qualified for it as well.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Sneak Attack and Telling Blow are different abilities.

One can qualify for one, the other, or both.

Nothing in the feat description implies, as I read it, that one wouldn't get Sneak Attack damage if qualified for it as well.

You have to have either sneak attack or skirmish to take Telling Blow, because Telling Blow essentially just increases the opportunities in which you can use your sneak attack or skirmish. You can't strike a vital area twice in one shot; when you use Telling Blow, you're essentially making a sneak attack under unusual circumstances. You do not get the damage twice.

 

[Kmart Kommando]

You have to have either sneak attack or skirmish to take Telling Blow, because Telling Blow essentially just increases the opportunities in which you can use your sneak attack or skirmish. You can't strike a vital area twice in one shot; when you use Telling Blow, you're essentially making a sneak attack under unusual circumstances. You do not get the damage twice.

Actually, you have to have Sneak Attack or Skirmish because it is a prereq for the feat. And Telling Blow essentially adds to the damage you do when you confirm a critical hit. Which is actually spelled out word for word how it works in the description for the feat. It say nothing about 'you can only do Sneak Attack once', it says add your Sneak Attack dice to the damage caused when you crit. If that hit happens to also be a Sneak Attack, then you just put a world of hurt on that guy. Which is essentially what a critical hit is.

Before you say "oh, but then everyone will have keen rapiers and do uber damage" he could've been a barbarian chopping on things with a keen scythe, Power Attack and Leap Attack, and really dish out the uber damage on a critical.

At the low levels, it isn't that much of a boost to damage, and at higher levels, monsters just laugh at the rogue's Sneak Attack attempts.