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I feel like people are massively overplaying what dmg272 says for the tumble thing
OVERRUN
When a creature tries to move through a hostile
creature's space, the mover can try to force its way
through by overrunning the hostile creature. As an
action or a bonus action, the mover makes a Strength
Athletics) check contested by the hostile creature's
Strength (Athletics) check. The creature attempting the
overrun has advantage on this check if it is larger than
the hostile creature, or disadvantage if it is smaller. If
the mover wins the contest, it can move through the
hostile creature's space once this turn.
SHOVE ASIDE
With this option, a creature uses the special shove
attack from the Player's Handbook to force a target
to the side, rather than away. The attacker has
disadvantage on its Strength (Athletics) check when it
does so. If that check is successful, the attacker moves
the target 5 feet to a different space within its reach.
TUMBLE
A creature can try to tumble through a hostile creature's
space, ducking and weaving past the opponent. As an
action or a bonus action, the tumbler makes a Dexterity
(Acrobatics) check contested by the hostile creature's
Dexterity (Acrobatics) check. If the tumbler wins the
contest, it can move through the hostile creature's space
once this turn.
In order for that to avoid an OA you would need to A: be unable to just walk around the other side of the monster you want to tumble through (ie wall/other monster). B: Have a second opponent in a near football defensive line style lineup where you have [monster][empty 5ft square][monster] -AND-C: be excited about wasting your bonus action to do it.
If you don't have that defensive line style lineup someone could literally just walk dash or even dash+cunning action dash+etc in circles around the creature they want to tumble through.
All three of them are elements of past editions stripped of a reason to exist & pasted from the cutting room floor to the dmg.
Oh yeah, it only really covers situations where your enemy is blocking your path, otherwise, rogues in particular, would find it easier to go around using their bonus action. If your opponent is big enough, you can move through its square for free as well. My PCs have used it occasionally though.
Nonetheless, mechanics aside, this is allowing you to do what acrobatic characters want to do - dodge past an opponent. The fluff is up to you.
the dungeon crawl edge case of needing to jump and clear a low obstacle no taller than a quarter of the jump's distance. Even in a dungeon crawl that's an edge case situation
What do you mean by this? Even a long jump requires gaining some height, because otherwise you drop down (if over a gap) or just slide along the floor (if not).
But again, Dex is rather ancillary to the discussion. Even in the rough terrain case, it's still a Strength check to do the jump itself and Dex is only involved in avoiding falling prone, so it's only relevant if you need to stay on your feet, which I don't think is common outside of combat.
In order for that to avoid an OA you would need to A: be unable to just walk around the other side of the monster you want to tumble through (ie wall/other monster). B: Have a second opponent in a near football defensive line style lineup where you have [monster][empty 5ft square][monster] -AND-C: be excited about wasting your bonus action to do it.
If you don't have that defensive line style lineup someone could literally just walk dash or even dash+cunning action dash+etc in circles around the creature they want to tumble through.
All three of them are elements of past editions stripped of a reason to exist & pasted from the cutting room floor to the dmg.
Check: You can land softly when you fall or tumble past
opponents. You can also tumble to entertain an audience (as though
using the Perform skill). The DCs for various tasks involving the
Tumble skill are given on the table below.
Tumble DC Task
15 Treat a fall as if it were 10 feet shorter than it really
is when determining damage.
15 Tumble at one-half speed as part of normal movement, provoking no attacks of opportunity while doing so. Failure means you provoke attacks
of opportunity normally. Check separately for each
opponent you move past, in the order in which you
pass them (player’s choice of order in case of a tie).
Each additional enemy after the first adds +2 to the
Tumble DC.
25 Tumble at one-half speed through an area occupied
by an enemy (over, under, or around the opponent)
as part of normal movement, provoking no attacks
of opportunity while doing so. Failure means you
stop before entering the enemy-occupied area and
provoke an attack of opportunity from that enemy.
Check separately for each opponent. Each additional
enemy after the first adds +2 to the Tumble DC.
Obstructed or otherwise treacherous surfaces, such as natural cavern
floors or undergrowth, are tough to tumble through. The DC for any
Tumble check made to tumble into such a square is modified as
indicated below.
Surface Is . . . DC Modifier
Lightly obstructed (scree, light rubble, shallow bog1, +2
undergrowth)
Severely obstructed (natural cavern floor, dense rubble, +5
dense undergrowth)
Lightly slippery (wet floor) +2
Severely slippery (ice sheet) +5
Sloped or angled +2
1 Tumbling is impossible in a deep bog.
Accelerated Tumbling: You try to tumble past or through enemies
more quickly than normal. By accepting a –10 penalty on your
Tumble checks, you can move at your full speed instead of one-half
your speed.
Action: Not applicable. Tumbling is part of movement, so a
Tumble check is part of a move action. .
It wss (obviously) much more useful in the past. That changed because the relevant mechanic was stripped away when 5e switched from AoOs to OAs but the DMG got a partial cutting room floor snippet.
What do you mean by this? Even a long jump requires gaining some height, because otherwise you drop down (if over a gap) or just slide along the floor (if not).
'
If you don't need to jump, it should be fairly trivial to climb over "a low obstacle" you could jump over. I quoted the 5e jump mechanics back in 616. If you need to do both of those things or the low obstacle is something like a stalactite(mite?) hanging down it's the sort of old school dungeoncrawl scenario 5e does a poor job of supporting.
But again, Dex is rather ancillary to the discussion. Even in the rough terrain case, it's still a Strength check to do the jump itself and Dex is only involved in avoiding falling prone, so it's only relevant if you need to stay on your feet, which I don't think is common outside of combat.
Read the 5e jump mechanic in 616, it has a function for str athletics & dex acrobatics in it & the post I quoted there talks about using dex acrobatics for jumping..
Check: You can land softly when you fall or tumble past
opponents. You can also tumble to entertain an audience (as though
using the Perform skill). The DCs for various tasks involving the
Tumble skill are given on the table below.
Tumble DC Task
15 Treat a fall as if it were 10 feet shorter than it really
is when determining damage.
15 Tumble at one-half speed as part of normal movement, provoking no attacks of opportunity while doing so. Failure means you provoke attacks
of opportunity normally. Check separately for each
opponent you move past, in the order in which you
pass them (player’s choice of order in case of a tie).
Each additional enemy after the first adds +2 to the
Tumble DC.
25 Tumble at one-half speed through an area occupied
by an enemy (over, under, or around the opponent)
as part of normal movement, provoking no attacks
of opportunity while doing so. Failure means you
stop before entering the enemy-occupied area and
provoke an attack of opportunity from that enemy.
Check separately for each opponent. Each additional
enemy after the first adds +2 to the Tumble DC.
Obstructed or otherwise treacherous surfaces, such as natural cavern
floors or undergrowth, are tough to tumble through. The DC for any
Tumble check made to tumble into such a square is modified as
indicated below.
Surface Is . . . DC Modifier
Lightly obstructed (scree, light rubble, shallow bog1, +2
undergrowth)
Severely obstructed (natural cavern floor, dense rubble, +5
dense undergrowth)
Lightly slippery (wet floor) +2
Severely slippery (ice sheet) +5
Sloped or angled +2
1 Tumbling is impossible in a deep bog.
Accelerated Tumbling: You try to tumble past or through enemies
more quickly than normal. By accepting a –10 penalty on your
Tumble checks, you can move at your full speed instead of one-half
your speed.
Action: Not applicable. Tumbling is part of movement, so a
Tumble check is part of a move action. .
It wss (obviously) much more useful in the past. That changed because the relevant mechanic was stripped away when 5e switched from AoOs to OAs but the DMG got a partial cutting room floor snippet.
If you don't need to jump, it should be fairly trivial to climb over "a low obstacle" you could jump over. I quoted the 5e jump mechanics back in 616. If you need to do both of those things or the low obstacle is something like a stalactite(mite?) hanging down it's the sort of old school dungeoncrawl scenario 5e does a poor job of supporting.
Read the 5e jump mechanic in 616, it has a function for str athletics & dex acrobatics in it & the post I quoted there talks about using dex acrobatics for jumping..
I have read the mechanic; you're not being clear about the scenario. If you don't need to jump, i.e because there's a floor you can cross, then jumping is irrelevant. If you do need to jump, then the low obstacle thing is covered by a Strength (Athletics) check.
And no, the 5e jump mechanic does not involve a Dex (Acrobatics) check to actually do the jump, just to keep on your feet on rough terrain.
My 10 year old grand-niece is a champion twirler. She is very limber and very agile with great hand-eye co-ordination but I can assure you that she isn't that strong.
So child gymnasts are strong? They have muscle tone. Trying to draw a hard line here is like trying to draw a real life line between intelligence and wisdom.
So child gymnasts are strong? They have muscle tone. Trying to draw a hard line here is like trying to draw a real life line between intelligence and wisdom.
Read the post I quoted when I explained it. That post was specifically talking about using the 5e tumble to avoid an opportunity attack. Such a thing onlyhappens in an extremely narrow situation as described because of how hard it is to provoke one in the distance a tumble through moves the tumbler
I have read the mechanic; you're not being clear about the scenario. If you don't need to jump, i.e because there's a floor you can cross, then jumping is irrelevant. If you do need to jump, then the low obstacle thing is covered by a Strength (Athletics) check.
That's my point! I literally said that! The strength athletics check built into the 5e jump RAW is such an an extreme edge case that there is no reason for any class to use dex acrobatics for it
"When you land in difficult terrain, you must succeed on a DC 10 Dexterity (Acrobatics) check to land on your
feet. Otherwise, you land prone.". Nor does doing the jump involve any other check because. " When you make a long jump, you cover a number of feet up to your Strength score if you move at least least 10 feet on foot immediately before the jump."
Perhaps you meant to quote someone else with this post arguing that my points are correct
