Role/Roll Playing

[xigbar]

Many of these replies seem to come from a point of view that optimization and roleplaying can't exist together in the same person. "Optimization" is not a bad word. A roleplayer will do the best with what he's got just like an optimizer that doesn't have a good roleplaying bone in his body.

Where I find distaste is the optimizer that demands high stats--won't play without them. If he rolls low hit points or doesn't have a stat above 11, then he wants to get special dispensation from the DM to re-roll or otherwise demand that he be allowed to "try again" (supposedly until he gets something acceptible to him).

If you're going to do that, then why not just use a point buy system? Why random roll at all?

If you're going to random roll, then accept the consquences. Optimize what you get, and roleplay the heck out of that characters.

Those are the types of players I respect--not the whiners who have to have at least one stat at 18+ and all the others with bonuses.

I've got a character in my current group right now the stretches to the two high-low extremes with his stats:

Caelis Redbirth

STR 19
DEX 13
CON 10
INT 12
WIS 7
CHA 6

He's a first level character; a heck of an athelete (+10 Climb, +8 Jump, +4 Swim); the new apprentice to his family's forge (+6 Craft (Weaponsmith)); and a pretty good clan scout (+7 Hide, +7 Move Silent, +4 Spot, +3 Knowledge (local)).

But, this guy is also very plain spoken. He rubs people the wrong way. He's smarter than the average clansman but is lacking in the common sense department. He's the type that, if you don't like what he has to say, well, he'll invite you oustide and beat you until you agree that he was "right".

You don't want this guy representing the clan when there is a council with other clan chieftains: -6 Diplomacy; -5 Bluff; -4 Intimidate. Even though he's big, at 6', 180 lbs., people tend to underestimate him when he opens his mouth.





This here is a character that is extremely weak in some areas but has been optimized by a roleplayer to "fit" a personality. Did this player wish he'd rolled better stats? You bet. But, he was able to optimize what he did roll (a 17, put into STR, then received a +2 racial bonus) and turn this list of stats into a real character--someone you'd want at your back when on the battlefield but not when you're negotiating a truce.

This jumble of stats now has a real personality.

That's true, and that's a good example, but like you said, why random roll at all? I hate random roll, because it hinders optimizing AND roleplaying, in my opinion.

 

[lordxaviar]

I'm fairly sure this has been asked before, but I'm curious to see the results for myself, and why, if you have the time. Please feel free to give specific examples; Role Playing or Roll Playing, and why? I've played and DMed so I'm curious to know. To clarify, do you build your character's character, or do you build to dominate the game?

I role play and build to dominate their little part of the world.. never had a world domination megalomaniac as a character, leave that to the evils.

sorry to say that my players are all from the video game generation and they are not into the role part.... they are roll.... hack slashers... but good problem solvers...so i kinda have to deal with it..

I have always taken the sessions and wrote them into story form to read back to the players before the start of the next session to remind them of where they were and adding a little more flair to the visualizations of the fight scenes, and humorous 1 rolls... with some added narration in places as well, making them more like the dnd novels...

man im on a typing roll today or is that role?

 

[Water Bob]

I hate random roll, because it hinders optimizing AND roleplaying, in my opinion.

I completely disagree. I believe that random roll lends itself to cookie-cutter characters. It's be a very unusual point-buy player that would create the character of Caelis I posted above. More than likely, the player would lower his STR a bit and compensate for his low WIS and CHA. The character would be "evened out" a bit--optimized.

The random roll forces variety, like life. People are different. Not all the same. This Caelis can be just as much a hero as a point-buy optimized one, and I think this one is interesting because of his faults.

My players are already buzzing over e-mail about "keeping Caelis in the barn" when they go to town.

They tell him not to say anything. "Just stand there, cross your arms, and hold your axe."

We're already getting hints of real roleplaying coming about in the game BECAUSE Caelis has low stats in a couple of areas.

No, I'm a firm believer in random roll.

 

[xigbar]

man im on a typing roll today or is that role?

Both.

 

[Dandu]

That's true, and that's a good example, but like you said, why random roll at all? I hate random roll, because it hinders optimizing AND roleplaying, in my opinion.

A true roleplayer takes what the dice gives him and makes something of it. You can't go into a game of Dungeons and Dragons with preconceived notions of the character you want to play! Such a practice is the antithesis of true roleplaying because if you keep playing what you want to play you will never try new things which leads to creative stagnation! This game we play isn't about you, or about you having fun with your idealized characters, it's about playing a role. That's why we call it a role-playing game.

It's a good thing that there are still DMs who will force people to do it old school, the way real men did it; rolling 3d6 stats, in order, no rerolls. Builds character.

 

[xigbar]

I completely disagree. I believe that random roll lends itself to cookie-cutter characters. It's be a very unusual point-buy player that would create the character of Caelis I posted above. More than likely, the player would lower his STR a bit and compensate for his low WIS and CHA. The character would be "evened out" a bit--optimized.

The random roll forces variety, like life. People are different. Not all the same. This Caelis can be just as much a hero as a point-buy optimized one, and I think this one is interesting because of his faults.

My players are already buzzing over e-mail about "keeping Caelis in the barn" when they go to town.

They tell him not to say anything. "Just stand there, cross your arms, and hold your axe."

We're already getting hints of real roleplaying coming about in the game BECAUSE Caelis has low stats in a couple of areas.

No, I'm a firm believer in random roll.

Actually, I USUALLY see Barbarian builds with scores low in wis and cha, and often int as well. I would one day like to do a random roll game levels 1-20, but the reason I prefer point buy is because I like to sculpt my character, for mechanics AND the kind of person I have in mind, even more so for the latter.

 

[xigbar]

A true roleplayer takes what the dice gives him and makes something of it. You can't go into a game of Dungeons and Dragons with preconceived notions of the character you want to play! Such a practice is the antithesis of true roleplaying because if you keep playing what you want to play you will never try new things which leads to creative stagnation! This game we play isn't about you, or about you having fun with your idealized characters, it's about playing a role. That's why we call it a role-playing game.

It's a good thing that there are still DMs who will force people to do it old school, the way real men did it; rolling 3d6 stats, in order, no rerolls. Builds character.

Your sarcasm is a little too subtle for me, Water Bob.

 

[lordxaviar]

A true roleplayer takes what the dice gives him and makes something of it. You can't go into a game of Dungeons and Dragons with preconceived notions of the character you want to play! Such a practice is the antithesis of true roleplaying because if you keep playing what you want to play you will never try new things which leads to creative stagnation! This game we play isn't about you, or about you having fun with your idealized characters, it's about playing a role. That's why we call it a role-playing game.

It's a good thing that there are still DMs who will force people to do it old school, the way real men did it; rolling 3d6 stats, in order, no rerolls. Builds character.

well put... I let the players roll, but if they are under what they could create with a 28 point buy I let them add to the stats to that point, just to match the suggested str of character needed in the WoG campaign.

 

[Water Bob]

A true roleplayer takes what the dice gives him and makes something of it. You can't go into a game of Dungeons and Dragons with preconceived notions of the character you want to play! Such a practice is the antithesis of true roleplaying because if you keep playing what you want to play you will never try new things which leads to creative stagnation! This game we play isn't about you, or about you having fun with your idealized characters, it's about playing a role. That's why we call it a role-playing game.

It's a good thing that there are still DMs who will force people to do it old school, the way real men did it; rolling 3d6 stats, in order, no rerolls. Builds character.

Your words are patronizing, as usual, but inspite of the sarcasm, I actually agree with most of what you have to say.

I prefer point buy is because I like to sculpt my character, for mechanics AND the kind of person I have in mind, even more so for the latter.

There's nothing wrong with point-buy, if that's what you and your group enjoy. My problem with it, and the reason I don't use it, is that it generally doesn't lend itself to interesting characters but more to idealized, cardboard, everybody-is-GREAT types.

I prefer individuals in my story-telling, and flaws (and how the player deals with those flaws) typically makes for extremely interesting individuals.

I'm not knocking your style of play. It's just not for me. Some people prefer Star Wars and some prefer Aliens. I like the grit of Aliens better than I like the archetypes of Star Wars.

But, in the end, I like both, too, depending on the type of game I'm playing.

Point-buy has its place. That place is just not very often with me.

You're sarcasm is a little too subtle for me, Water Bob.

That was Dandu, not me.

 

[xigbar]

There's nothing wrong with point-buy, if that's what you and your group enjoy. My problem with it, and the reason I don't use it, is that it generally doesn't lend itself to interesting characters but more to idealized, cardboard, everybody-is-GREAT types.

I prefer individuals in my story-telling, and flaws (and how the player deals with those flaws) typically makes for extremely interesting individuals.

I'm not knocking your style of play. It's just not for me. Some people prefer Star Wars and some prefer Aliens. I like the grit of Aliens better than I like the archetypes of Star Wars.

But, in the end, I like both, too, depending on the type of game I'm playing.

Point-buy has its place. That place is just not very often with me.

That was Dandu, not me.

I intentionally give my characters flaws. I know what they'll be good at and what they'll be bad. And I know you're not knocking my style of play, I'm just saying why I think it could be what you say it isn't. And I know it wasn't Dandu, I said your name, because he was mimicking you.