D&D 5E Roshambo-Style Theatre of the Mind Combat

robus

Lowcountry Low Roller
Supporter
[MENTION=69817]volanin[/MENTION], I think [MENTION=6796241]OB1[/MENTION]’s idea of tightening up the intro is great. I’d also recommend a fairly extended “actual play” example where the players declare their moves and the DM responds (the actual attack rolls could be skimmed over), so that readers can get a good handle on how it plays out at the table.
 

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volanin

Adventurer
It's updated to version 1.2, and uploaded to DM's Guild!
Thanks everybody!


http://www.dmsguild.com/product/224253


Changes:

1. Tighter introduction and text.
2. Cover and Terrain Features must be engaged.
3. Rules on Movement Speed
4. Weapons with Reach


Please, keep the FEEDBACK coming!
It's really important! :)


@volanin, I think @OB1’s idea of tightening up the intro is great. I’d also recommend a fairly extended “actual play” example where the players declare their moves and the DM responds (the actual attack rolls could be skimmed over), so that readers can get a good handle on how it plays out at the table.

Maybe I'll write an extended actual play in the future, but right now I am trying to keep it at just 2 pages.
My ability to write succinctly has increased at least 2 levels. It's hard!


Glad you like the name and the idea for cover!

Movement Advantage - You can gain advantage to your movement from one of many sources (Haste, Unarmored Movement, ability to ignore difficult terrain, bonus dash ability), if you have it, you can Dash as part of your regular movement
Movement Disadvantage - You can gain disadvantage to your movement from one of many sources (Prone, Difficult terrain, Encumbered, Slowed), if you have it, you cannot intercept, and if you dash to a far location that is difficult terrain, you lose your action on your next turn

Advantages and Disadvantages don't stack, and if you have one of each from any source you move normally.

I completely stole this terminology as well!
Movement Advantage and Movement Disadvantage make everything clearer. Thanks!

The only thing that I changed was Movement Disadvantage's "cannot Intercept" to "cannot Dash", since Dash represents movement better than Intercept and creates a coherent opposition to Movement Advantage's "free" Dash. Yet, there is a provision to allow movement to the Far range by using your whole turn (and you cannot Engage as part of this movement).


For movement, you could do it this way.

1) If your speed is 35-40 ft, you gain dash as a bonus action.
2) If your speed is 45 or greater, you can dash as a part of your move action.

That also gives Monks that little extra at high levels, or wood elf barbarians. If that's too low you could go to 50 ft as your cutoff.

Allowing a class to Dash as part of your free movement everytime is way too overpowered in my opinion, because it basically breaks the Rock/Paper/Scissors tactics, which shouldn't happen even for high-level Monks! Instead, I still used the idea of Dash as part of the movement, but only when temporary effects are acting upon you (like the Haste Spell).
 
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OB1

Jedi Master
I just picked up a copy as well! Great job!
[MENTION=6801558]robus[/MENTION] - May I suggest adding this thread to the "Best Of" sticky thread?
 

Stalker0

Legend
Few more notes.

1) Under the rules of engagement, the way you write it implies that "Engage" is something a player will be familiar with. Remember that you have invented that concept in this document, so you need to go into a bit more.

2) Not a critique, just my note. I think OA will actually be much more common in this game vs a normal combat. Main reason is in normal combat you can often "engage" 3 things at the same time. I can run over to the area with the level, beat up the 2 orcs, and pull the level...etc. In this one, since you can only engage with 1 thing at a time, I think there will be more pressure to switch engagements...therefore drawing OAs. Again, that actually might be a good thing.

3) Movement Speed. I think you imply most of the these, but its important to spell it out.

a) All racial speed bonuses are gone. So dwaves and wood elves have the same speed. Should wood elves be given something for their trouble?
b) What happens if racial and class bonuses are combined? Wood Elf monk? Or a barb/monk? Do these go into "movement advantage"?

4) Reach Weapons: Went from no value to OP. Basically I am getting at least 1 free attack almost every combat against medium creatures. That's a hell of an advantage.

5) Area of Effect. I feel like 1 or 2 more examples is good here. That section took me several rereads to really get, another good example can make a world of difference. Might a recommend an radius around the caster as an example?

6) Have work out if certain abilities need rewrites with this system.
a) Cleave?
b) The ranger's attack all enemies adjacent to it.

Just for a few starters.
 

volanin

Adventurer
Congrats - just picked it up from there. Well done! :)

I just picked up a copy as well! Great job!

Thanks a lot for all the help and suggestions, I hope these ideas are able improve the combats of more people who play TotM style as much as they're improving mine right now.

Also, although this PDF is meant to be distributed for free, there were 4 people that decided to pay a little for it, for a combined total of $6 ($3 after WotC's 50% cut). While this is a symbolic value, it makes me extra happy to know that they decided to show their appreciation like this! Consider yourself with Thanks Advantage!


[MENTION=6801558]robus[/MENTION] - May I suggest adding this thread to the "Best Of" sticky thread?

I see that [MENTION=6801558]robus[/MENTION] added this thread to the "Best Of", thanks a lot! I changed the name of the thread to make it easier to google, and I hope it doesn't break the link there. (Confession time: I've never realized that there is a "Best Of" thread before... I have to read a lot of things there that caught my interest).
 

robus

Lowcountry Low Roller
Supporter
I see that [MENTION=6801558]robus[/MENTION] added this thread to the "Best Of", thanks a lot! I changed the name of the thread to make it easier to google, and I hope it doesn't break the link there. (Confession time: I've never realized that there is a "Best Of" thread before... I have to read a lot of things there that caught my interest).

No worries, the link is fine :)
 

volanin

Adventurer
Few more notes.

1) Under the rules of engagement, the way you write it implies that "Engage" is something a player will be familiar with. Remember that you have invented that concept in this document, so you need to go into a bit more.

I agree with you. I also have to write an "extended actual play" example to make it more comprehensible. This will probably come soon, but right now one of my goals was to keep this PDF limited to 2 pages, to make it a short read, and also to avoid feature-creep that leads to bloat.


2) Not a critique, just my note. I think OA will actually be much more common in this game vs a normal combat. Main reason is in normal combat you can often "engage" 3 things at the same time. I can run over to the area with the level, beat up the 2 orcs, and pull the level...etc. In this one, since you can only engage with 1 thing at a time, I think there will be more pressure to switch engagements...therefore drawing OAs. Again, that actually might be a good thing.

No sweat, that's exactly the kind of feedback that improves these rules, be they harsh or not!

About the commonality of Opportunity Attacks... well... maybe I didn't make it clear enough, but the intention is that if you can engage a creature and beat it, you are still free to move and engage another one. If you can kill creatures with one attack, and have enough extra attacks, you can basically wipe the battlefield without taking a single Opportunity Attack.

1. In your example, you would be able to engage one orc and beat it, then engage the second orc and beat it, then engage the lever and pull it. All in the same round, if you can kill the orcs fast enough.

2. Or alternatively: you move directly to the lever in order to engage it, but is intercepted by an orc. You know that you could attempt to engage the lever anyway and take an OA, or you could use your Action to engage the lever cleanly... but you're probably going to the intercepted by the second orc whichever option you choose. So you decide to simply attack. On the orcs turn, one is already engaged and attacks; the other engages you and also attacks. The next round, you use your Action to engage the lever and activate it (the orcs are engaged and can't intercept any longer). You're now engaged with both orcs and the lever.

3. Or even: you see two orcs protecting a lever, they are ready to interrupt you. You use your Action to Dash into the lever, engage and activate it. (The unengaged orcs though, taking advantage of your desperation to use the lever, move and engage the cleric that stayed behind... and you can't intercept them. It's a trade off with stakes that change accordingly to the situation at hand).


3) Movement Speed. I think you imply most of the these, but its important to spell it out.

a) All racial speed bonuses are gone. So dwaves and wood elves have the same speed. Should wood elves be given something for their trouble?
b) What happens if racial and class bonuses are combined? Wood Elf monk? Or a barb/monk? Do these go into "movement advantage"?

Indeed, racial speed bonuses are gone, and this is by design. Racial bonuses to speed are usually "tiny", and this implementation of the rules make the bonuses to speed much more considerable and perceptible (Dash becomes a Bonus Action). Making concessions in the rules to include these "tiny" differences was not worth it (added complexity for little gain) and that's why they are ignored. And since they are ignored, they don't stack with Class Abilities, as in your Wood Elf Monk example.

Something else is also implied, but important: Class Abilities don't stack if you multiclass. So your Wood Elf Monk/Barbarian/Rogue only ever gets one Dash as a Bonus Action... which a Haste Spell or Potion of Speed can improve to "Dash once per turn as part of your movement" until the effect ends.


4) Reach Weapons: Went from no value to OP. Basically I am getting at least 1 free attack almost every combat against medium creatures. That's a hell of an advantage.

That was also my fear, that it would be OP. But you must remember that you only get the "free attack" if a creature engages you, and if you're unengaged. During playtest, two things happened: monsters would avoid long pointy things, and you don't get a "free attack" if YOU engage the creature... or they would engage anyway, the player would get the "free attack", and that was it... he would stay engaged until the end of the combat with the current creature, or with additional creatures that engaged him while he was already engaged.

So I stopped worrying and added the rule.

Of course, any DM is free to limit the rule to monsters only, or remove it completely.
If you ever playtest this as well, I'd honestly really like your feedback.


5) Area of Effect. I feel like 1 or 2 more examples is good here. That section took me several rereads to really get, another good example can make a world of difference. Might a recommend an radius around the caster as an example?

Yep, I agree.

In practice, a radius around the caster would work exactly as the Burning Hands example: The spell range is 0 feet (Self) so it only affects Near creatures. Supposing a radius of 20 feet (circle), you check the table and see that it can affect up to 4 creatures (radius ÷ 5). So you choose 4 Near creatures at will and blast away.

Actually, this method is described in the DMG 249.


6) Have work out if certain abilities need rewrites with this system.
a) Cleave?
b) The ranger's attack all enemies adjacent to it.

Just for a few starters.

I'd rule that the ranger can attack all engaged enemies, and it averages to the same.
In grid combat, if enemies are close together, you can get adjacent to them easily and unleash the attacks... but if they are far apart, you're toast. In these rules, it takes more effort to engage many enemies (unless they engage you), but you can choose to actively use your Action to force engagement, independent of the enemy position (as long as it's Near). Both systems have their pros and cons.
 
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Stalker0

Legend
You might consider giving reach weapon a +2 (or advantage) on OAs. Its still a solid advantage, but not as overt as a common free attack when someone moves into you.

I'm wondering if the engage action should be a bonus action instead. Actions are so precious in the game, do you really see people spending their entire action just to engage with someone?
 

volanin

Adventurer
You might consider giving reach weapon a +2 (or advantage) on OAs. Its still a solid advantage, but not as overt as a common free attack when someone moves into you.

This is a good idea! Gaining advantage to Opportunity Attacks is less exploitable than gaining an Opportunity Attack when a creature engages you (and you're unengaged), and the idea is in line with the current way reach weapon works. But also, it doesn't consider the factor that, on the grid, you can melee attack with these weapons without being adjacent, so maybe only gaining this advantage to OAs is actually too little?

Let me think about that a little more!


I'm wondering if the engage action should be a bonus action instead. Actions are so precious in the game, do you really see people spending their entire action just to engage with someone?

Ah, this was considered! There are two points to this:

1. When Engage is a Bonus Action, melee classes which basically have little use for Bonus Actions could spend them round after round in order to "collect" engagements along the battlefield. Eventually, they would be Engaged with everybody, which is OP.

2. Actually, you can Engage for free as part of your movement if you're unengaged (which kind mimics the grid, where you move and become adjacent). It's only when you want to Engage an additional creature without taking OAs that you have to spend an Action. And this is usually only done when you have strong tactical reasons to do so: you trade an Action for the ability to impose disadvantage to all ranged attacks and spell of a creature, and to limit it's ability to Engage someone else freely or Dashing away. On many situations, it's very worth it!
 

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