D&D 5E Roshambo-Style Theatre of the Mind Combat

Pvt. Winslow

Explorer
2. Is there a limit on how many creatures can Intercept a single enemy's movement?
By my reading, I do not see one. In a similar scenario of 20 enemies to 4 PC's, what would prevent 10 enemies from all Intercepting the Fighter's movement in a single turn? In grid play, the maximum number of creatures that can be adjacent to you is 8. In this TotM system, that number is either limitless, or limited by DM adjudication. For the most part, those 10 enemies don't gain a benefit from all Intercepting until the Fighter wishes to break the Engagements and move away. At that point, he either uses the Disengage action, or suffers 10 separate opportunity attacks.

This may also be by design.

I actually had to reread this a few times to understand what you wanted to do.
No, it's not possible for a Fighter to be Intercepted by 10 enemies simultaneously in a single turn.

When a Fighter attempts to Engage a creature, he can be Intercepted by another enemy. Even if there are 10 enemies willing to Intercept him, as soon as the first Interception happens, he is already Engaged with this enemy, and his original engagement failed. The other 9 enemies cannot keep on Intercepting, as there is nothing to Intercept any longer... :D

Excellent. This is good to know. Not sure if it's obvious to others and I just couldn't wrap my head around it.

I actually just playtested the rules with a small combat with friends and they all believed they could multiple intercept an enemy as well, so I will make sure to make a note that they cannot going forward. Other than that, I believe the rules worked flawlessly.

Thanks again for sharing this with us. It's going to make my life a heck of a lot easier as DM :)
 

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GMMichael

Guide of Modos
Two combat distances? Free movement? The revolution is here! (I use the same thing ;))

Two questions Volanin:

Were you inspired by something other than the 1992 video game that inspired me?
Have you dropped a copy of your combat rules in the ENWorld archive?
 

volanin

Adventurer
Two combat distances? Free movement? The revolution is here! (I use the same thing ;))

Two questions Volanin:

Were you inspired by something other than the 1992 video game that inspired me?
Have you dropped a copy of your combat rules in the ENWorld archive?

Nice! Good to know this system has had some kind of prior testing! ;)

But now you got me curious: which 1992 video-game are you talking about?
Maybe I'm in need of "more inspiration"!
 

GMMichael

Guide of Modos
Final Fantasy IV was a '91 release, but I think it hit the States in '92. In combat, your party had front and back rows, and I believe the ranged/reach weapons helped to provide back row protection without suffering a penalty to damage.
 

volanin

Adventurer
Final Fantasy IV was a '91 release, but I think it hit the States in '92. In combat, your party had front and back rows, and I believe the ranged/reach weapons helped to provide back row protection without suffering a penalty to damage.

Oh... THAT game! :D
I've played almost every Final Fantasy released (the exceptions were 2 and 3 for the NES, I believe).

But I must say they were not the inspiration for this system (although I can definitely see some similarities). This system proposed here grew more organically, from the necessities at the RPG table, and eventually cleaned up and coded in this small ruleset for a clearer reference; and also to gather more ideas from feedback, that would improve the gameplay at my table!
 

volanin

Adventurer
Version 1.4 of Roshambo-Style Theatre of the Mind is up!
It's just a minor edit to clear a rule and layout improvements, as suggested by [MENTION=5889]Stalker0[/MENTION].
Thanks for all who downloaded and for all who kept on giving feedback,
:D
 

habahnow

First Post
Some questions i have that maybe needs to be cleared up in the next iteration of the document are:
1). Movement disadvantage. Specifically, it states:
Even with Movement Disadvantage[caused by being knocked prone for instance], you can​
still move Far by spending your ENTIRE TURN
moving, and you cannot become Engaged with​
anything as part of this movement.​

When you say entire turn, are you referring to using your Movement and Action to move far?


2). What is your opinion on having stacking movement disadvantage(similar to movement advantage) such as when a person is knocked prone in difficult terrain and attempts to move far? Maybe they must use all their movement and an action of this turn and their movement from next turn?(meaning they can't engage next turn with their movement but they can with a dash action assuming no movement disadvantage). An alternative option would be making it that the Prone condition does not cause movement disadvantage but causes the player to lose their movement(by standing up) or their Interception Reaction(while staying prone).

3). Another thing that is not made clear that is related to the above section is using actions to dash while you have movement disadvantage. From your document the implication is that regardless of how many actions you have, you can not dash while experiencing movement disadvantage unless you have a class feature that allows you to Dash as a Bonus Action. This means that someone with 3 actions and with movement disadvantage but no dash related class feature must spend the "entire turn moving"(which needs to be cleared up as per my first question) in order to move Far. A solution may be that you have to give up a Dash action in order to use a Dash action. So in the previous example, the character with 3 Actions and Movement Disadvantage must use 2 Actions in order to Dash and get Far.

4). I like what another user had mentioned about Movement Disadvantage preventing you from intercepting. As of now, the system doesn't care about movement within the Near area even in difficult Terrain. This change would make Difficult Terrain more of a problem for people within the area.

5). When someone is engaged with an enemy, does that mean they are adjacent?
From what i can understand, so long as an enemy is Near and attempting to engage an ally and you are not currently Engaged with an enemy, you can engage the enemy. So if you are behind your wizard as a fighter, and an enemy attempts to engage the wizard from the front, you can engage the enemy from the other side of your ally? or is the idea that you use your reaction to "move" and cut off the enemy? Additionally, so long as you don't Break The Engagement, you can move away from the enemy(while in the same zone) and not suffer an attack of opportunity?

6). There is no mention of effect that bring you movement down to 0 such as being grappled. I think while your movement is 0, you should be unable to Intercept or move.


Sorry for all the questions, but I'm really enjoying how the document is laid out and the rules are very good.
 
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volanin

Adventurer
Thanks a lot for the feedback @habahnow!

1). Movement disadvantage. Specifically, it states:

Even with Movement Disadvantage[caused by being knocked prone for instance], you can still move Far by spending your ENTIRE TURN moving, and you cannot become Engaged with anything as part of this movement.

When you say entire turn, are you referring to using your Movement and Action to move far?

Yes, that's exactly it.

If you have Movement Disadvantage, you must forfeit your Action and Bonus Action (or in other words, you must use all your Movement, Action and Bonus Action), in order to move Far, and you cannot become Engaged with any creature as part of this movement, as you would normally be able to.

Basically, you spend your whole turn just moving, and you will reach Far at the end of your turn as usual. Once there, you can still take Reactions during another creature's turn though.


2). What is your opinion on having stacking movement disadvantage(similar to movement advantage) such as when a person is knocked prone in difficult terrain and attempts to move far? Maybe they must use all their movement and an action of this turn and their movement from next turn?(meaning they can't engage next turn with their movement but they can with a dash action assuming no movement disadvantage). An alternative option would be making it that the Prone condition does not cause movement disadvantage but causes the player to lose their movement(by standing up) or their Interception Reaction(while staying prone).

Personally, in my opinion it should work the same way as the official Advantage and Disadvantage. It's more intuitive this way, and the system is meant to be simple and fast, without the need to track all the situations that might grant you Advantage or Disadvantage. It's less realistic yes, but works very, very well.

For example: if you were Slowed (by the spell), on Difficult Terrain and Prone, you'd need three rounds just to move Far. In my opinion, while that'd be more realistic, it would be boring to track and boring to play.


3). Another thing that is not made clear that is related to the above section is using actions to dash while you have movement disadvantage. From your document the implication is that regardless of how many actions you have, you can not dash while experiencing movement disadvantage unless you have a class feature that allows you to Dash as a Bonus Action. This means that someone with 3 actions and with movement disadvantage but no dash related class feature must spend the "entire turn moving"(which needs to be cleared up as per my first question) in order to move Far. A solution may be that you have to give up a Dash action in order to use a Dash action. So in the previous example, the character with 3 Actions and Movement Disadvantage must use 2 Actions in order to Dash and get Far.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but creatures don't have multiple Actions per turn. You have only a single Action that grants you 2 or 3 Attacks. What you might have is a Class Feature like the Fighter's Action Surge which grants you an additional Action, but you can't use it if you're spending your ENTIRE TURN moving just to get Far.


4). I like what another user had mentioned about Movement Disadvantage preventing you from intercepting. As of now, the system doesn't care about movement within the Near area even in difficult Terrain. This change would make Difficult Terrain more of a problem for people within the area.

Movement Disadvantage does not interfere with Intercept, and that's by design. Movement Disadvantage only interferes with movement... in other words, with Dashing and nothing more.

And that's the way that the system cares for "movement within the Near area even in Difficult Terrain": you become very easy to be Intercepted by the enemy. Since precise positions and distances are deliberately disregarded, in my mind that is a good compromise.


5). When someone is engaged with an enemy, does that mean they are adjacent? From what i can understand, so long as an enemy is Near and attempting to engage an ally and you are not currently Engaged with an enemy, you can engage the enemy. So if you are behind your wizard as a fighter, and an enemy attempts to engage the wizard from the front, you can engage the enemy from the other side of your ally? or is the idea that you use your reaction to "move" and cut off the enemy? Additionally, so long as you don't Break The Engagement, you can move away from the enemy(while in the same zone) and not suffer an attack of opportunity?

That's Grid Combat way of thought. The idea here is that you should not care about exact positions at all, because these are a pain to track in Theater of the Mind.

As such, there is no mechanical concept of Adjacent, and of being Behind an Ally. Positions should only be used for description, which allows you to say things like: "The Orc is ready to crush the Wizard, but my Fighter pulls the Wizard back at the last second and takes his place, Intercepting the Orc!"...

Or you could describe it as "I move around the Wizard and hold the Orc's arm. Now it has to fight me instead!"... it doesn't matter, the end result is the same, so describe away!

Don't think about positions as you would on a grid. They are MUCH more flexible and dynamic here.
Think about position as only a description, and let this system take care of the rest!


6). There is no mention of effect that bring you movement down to 0 such as being grappled. I think while your movement is 0, you should be unable to Intercept or move.

That's indeed true. I will fix that in the next revision, thanks!
:D
 
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Yaarel

He Mage
I am finding this mental style especially useful for my near future setting.

I use real Google and Bing maps. The highest resolution for the buildings and so on is still about one magnitude too small to use as a grid. But to divide the areas up into zones, and then use mental style, works out awesome.
 

G

Guest 6801328

Guest
Conceptually I really love this idea. I like TotM combat, but it often suffers for being a little too simplistic. Your core idea adds some interesting complexity and decision-making without worrying about grid placements.

A few comments/questions:
- How exactly does Engage "win" over Dash? Just that Dash provokes an AoO? It doesn't prevent Dash, though, right?
- Because the roshambo happens between multiple units, is there a danger that as A counters B, and C counters B, and D counters C, the team with the most players "wins".
- It seems like the trickiest part of this is that many of the rules it dispenses with (e.g. movement rates) are integral to many spells and abilities. You've addressed some of those options, but to cover every case would start to bog down your otherwise simple and elegant rules with tons of fine print (wouldn't it?) or risk accidentally nerfing some classes. Or am I imagining problems that don't exist.
 

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