(Rules-Meta-YB) YB Items

[Wicht]

"Real" Personal Items
Any YB character can have and interact with any number of "In-Character" items, but these items can and will have no effect on the actual fights. They are mere window dressing to the Role-playing. (Likewise, no matter how "rich" your character is, they never have more yen then is generated randomnly.) However, characters are each allowed to purchase and develop one item to use in fights. This item can be anything the character desires, a sword, a ring, a feather, or even a giant flying turtle. But no matter what the item is, it cost 5 yen to purchase. Once purchased, the item is "real" but as yet it has no powers. Powers must be purchased for additional yen.

Items are allowed to have as many powers as a character possesses tiers. Thus an item owned by a white belt may only have 1 power, whilst an item owned by a Green belt may have up to 3 powers. Powers must be purchased for yen and if a character with a maximum empowered item loses a tier, they must forfiet a power from the item as well. Items can be given to another fighter but they lose all their powers. They do however remain "real." A fighter may only ever have one "real" personal item at a time.

Each power added to the item cost 5 yen multiplied by a Modifier Score. The Modifier Score begins as 1.
.....+1 is added to the modifier score for each power the item already possesses.
.....+1 is added if the power is an at will power as opposed to a power dependant on the generator (Dirty trick vs. Style)
.....+1 if the power is one already known by another Path and not by your path (excepting signature locations and mastery).

Thus an Honor fighter who had already purchased a sword and wanted to add a Signature style to the sword would pay 5 yen (5x1). A second signature style would cost an additional 10 yen (5x2). If after this the fighter wanted the sword to have the dirty trick power, the fighter would have to pay 25 yen (5x5).

The following powers are available for items. Notice that some of them require a previous power and some of them operate differently or stack with a Fighters personal powers.

Signature Style/location An items signature style or signature location adds +1 to a move but does not grant immunity. An items signature style can and will stack with a fighter's signature style if necessary.

Immunity An item can grant immunity to a signature style or location the item already knows.

Mastery An item can grant the user the ability to once per fight change the generated style or location to one the item already knows. This is an at will ability.

Dirty Trick This works just like the dirty trick known by Yakuza and Dark fighters. This is an at will ability

Sneaky Trick This works just like the sneaky trick known by Yakuza and Dark Fighters. An item may only ever possess this ability once. This is an at will ability.

Poison Blade This works just like the poison blade known by Yakuza and Dark Fighters. This is an at will ability.

Chi Strike This works just like the Chi Strike known by Honor and Light fighters. This is an at will ability.

Holy Day This works just like the Holy Day known by Light fighters. An item may only ever possess this power once. This is an at will ability.

 

[Sabaron]

I'm not 100% clear on "real" items; here's an example of how I THINK it's supposed to work, according to your rules:

Sabaron enchants his sword to give him Sword style. This is his "real" item. He can't enchant any other items. If he gives his sword to MidKnight, who has no "real" items, it loses its powers and becomes MidKnight's "real" item. Sabaron can now enchant a new item. MidKnight must enchant the sword, as it is his "real" item.

Is this correct?

 

[Left-handed Hummingbird]

The rules look good and make Yen matter to non-sashes. I still think items overcomplicate things, though. It doubles the amount of information needed about each fighters.

 

[Wicht]

yes, that seems to be correct Sabaron - in other words characters can have as many things as they want, but may only ever have one item that has any real effect on the game.

LHH, Fighters already have items in their sigs. I think cutting it down to one item is a big improvement - plus I think there are ways to make the sigs of some fighters easier and more concise. I admit I wince everytime I see a sig that is 15-20 lines long. Plus I think most items will end up having only two or three powers.

By the by, I noticed I forgot Fist of fury - what other powers could be added to an item?

 

[Kesh]

This sounds really interesting. One question though: is there anyplace where all these powers are described? For instance, how does a Sneaky Trick work, etc.?

 

[Wicht]

This sounds really interesting. One question though: is there anyplace where all these powers are described? For instance, how does a Sneaky Trick work, etc.?

If you missed the appropriate thread, look tomorrow for all the rules to be put together in one thread and you will have your answer.

 

[Rathan]

I'm impressed wicht.... very impressed....I've liked the idea of items (relics) sense we started to use them.... thing is...I would say some powers are a tad bit expensive IMO.... I mean... that all depends on how easy it is come come into yen when the new game starts..... will yen be more aviliable cause I mean I've had archangel for what..... a month now..and he's made 2 or 3 yen sense he started..... I'd say... maybe lowering the price of the abilities a bit.... maybe 3 or 4 yen x the modifier......

let me know what you think of my idea.....I;m just throwing this out......... hope you get a chance to see it.....

 

[Wicht]

Its a fine line between making it too cheap and making it too expensive. As I see it, the ability to make yen more easily and thus be more likely to empower an item is the chief advantage of the sash at this point.

 

[Rathan]

while that may be good for them....they do have powers as well just like the rest of the paths.....but by doing this.... you have givin them an oppertunity to become more powerfull than anyother path in the game..

seeing as they will have there tier powers plus have there items which I might add are going to be much easyer to obtain by them than anyone else.........

also....may I suggest that maybe..... after or during a fight putting in something like a yen move....only having it be an item...... for example....you know how you can get a yen if it comes up in a move.... well....do that with items as well...lesser items of course..... that way..... the players can either use them as there item....or sell it to make profit to build a better item....... how that idea sound to you???

of course.... getting items in a move... would have to be VERY rare in deed....... maybe as rare as move modifiers...*LOL*sorry...just had to say that..*LOL*

 

[reiella]

Yen generation by an item is a bad idea imo.

Especially considering the sash mechanics for advancement and improving the item itself.

I do really like moving the 'risk' of lose of the item away. A few people knew how ticked I got at that fight with GrayDoom.

Also, I suggest keeping track of the item etc with the Fighter Registration thread.

It can easily fit in there (and with use of Quote blocks easy enough to seperate as well).

And just a quick one line summary of the items abilities in the battleframe (or just stated in the 'big frame' if you using one of those) when we get html re-enabled.

 

[Berandor]

"When we get html re-enabled" ??

If!

However, while I am not really convinced of items, I would at least say that if you give them away, they retain one power.

Berandor

 

[Rathan]

that's what I was thining as well...... one power.....if not just a "real" item with no powers at all........

 

[Jackal]

Well as far as the point of not getting enough yen for non sash players, why don't we give 1 yen to the winner of a fight as a prize. That way those that win will at least get one yen plus any they got during the match. But it still might make sash players too powerful.

Of course we could always get rid of the sash tree and we won't have any problem.

 

[Left-handed Hummingbird]

Nah, I think it is all the better that the Yen progression is very slow.

 

[Zappo]

I think yen should be about as rare as they are now. Yes, sashes will have a clear edge. So what? Since they are focused on possession, the fact that one of their sources of power comes from an item seems just appropriate. If you think they become too powerful, nerf their other powers, but remember that those 15-25+ yen it takes for the second, third and more powers are a helluvalot even for a sash; not everyone is like GD. And if they spend those yen in an item - they can't spend them in a fight to purchase powers.

My suggestion: trash the part about the item losing a power when you drop a tier. It is already bad enough to drop a tier, without having to lose the 35 yen you spent for your item's last power as well. Yes, you would end up being a little more powerful than another fighter of the same tier, but that would only become an issue if you dropped several tiers, which is very, very, very unlikely. At least, you could make it so that the lost power returns when you go up a tier again. In that case, however, you should force the player to choose one of the 'strongest' powers - ie, one of the 'at-will' ones.

Also, I would consider the possibility of letting a given item retain its powers - however, in any one fight, a fighter with more than one item should declare at the beginning which one he is going to use. It seems difficult that a fighter gives away his item, and it seems even more difficult for a high-ranking fighter to give away his very powerful item. And the possibility to actually exchange and give items makes for very good plots, or at least very good money.

The only bad scenario I can foresee is the high-ranker who retires and presents his yellow belt protegee with a katana of fist of fury with three signature styles and poison blade - that would suck. But since the low-tier rule above kicks in, all but the two least powers would be negated until the fighter climbs some more ranks. The yellow would have two extra sig styles, big deal - he could have them anyway if the high-ranker just gave him some yen to make his own item.

 

[Wicht]

well, well, items have generated more discussion then any of the other rules - thats good

I think the consensus seems to be to leave yen fairly rare. I also think that just removing one of the Sash's "purchased power" (at the 6th tier if IIRC) should help make it more balanced. If the sash seem over or under balanced we can always tweak the path a bit later.

I could see to leaving an item with one power if given away, but it really seems just as easy to give someone an item and 5 yen. As far as an item losing a power if you go down a tier - that is only if you have a fully charged item and if you do, it seems that if you lose a tier it was probably through poor choices - assume a 4th tier with an item with 4 powers - assuming not everyone is going to have the advantage - the guy with the fully charged item has quite the advantage. Still if enough think the power should just be suppressed then that is fine. However, if that is the case, then why not this: when you list an item and its powers, you must list them in the order that the powers were bought. This might allow too for players to purchase powers for their item that they cannot yet use, but which they will "come into" when they advance their next tier. I might suggest too that using colors it would be easy to see which powers are active, for example

Gamera: Turtle sig, Volcano sig, Sneaky trick

In the above case, sneaky trick has been purchased ahead but may not be used. Would this be an agreeable way to go? It does add to the bookkeeping would be my only complaint - but its not a lot of book keeping.

 

[Kalanyr]

If Sash fighters are focused on money and possessions and items cost money aren't they like a more powerful version of a Sash's purchased powers? Would it work to remove the Sash's purchased power abilities and give them an extra available tier on their items so they can put in more powers ? As opposed to having two abilities that are virtually the same.

 

[reiella]

That's part of the problem Zappo, GrayDoom advanced in huge chunks of 30 and 40 yen award packets...

Yen isn't rare... At least it wasn't largely because of the Pawn Shop. Since we keeling off the pawnshop, that's a good idea.

One suggestion, expand the Style bonus to also include yen moves (although I'd say a +2 cost there, as the chance for a yen to show up is 1 in 35 as opposed to a style/locations roughly 1 in 50).

For when you lose a tier, I suggest the last power that was added with that tier just be 'deactivated' until you regain it (if you sell it, or whatever, it clears still but).

Also, the trouble of conversion powers (which have a rather high tendency to lower you one tier).

Also possibly some mechanic for changing out the powers already placed in the item? Maybe half the cost for the tier of the power it's replacing? or half of the cost for the 'highest tier' power in the item?

Hmm that would work ya Wicht.
Keep the majority of hte accounting (ie, the specific order) in the fighter reg thread though just to try to keep clutter out.

 

[Wicht]

One suggestion, expand the Style bonus to also include yen moves (although I'd say a +2 cost there, as the chance for a yen to show up is 1 in 35 as opposed to a style/locations roughly 1 in 50).

The sash already gain this without items - though I guess it could be duplicated and made stackable. Also since its already a sash power - sash could get it easier, but other paths would have to pay the extra 5 yen.

For when you lose a tier, I suggest the last power that was added with that tier just be 'deactivated' until you regain it (if you sell it, or whatever, it clears still but).

That does seem to be the consensus.

And what - no comment on the fact I made your turtle potentially useful now?

 

[Wicht]

So how many are for being able to give an item fully charged to another and how many prefer the item to be strictly personal, losing all power when given away?