(Rules-Meta-YB) YB Items

[Wicht]

how is this power?

I just added it to the final product:

Mark: The item can "mark" any fighter it has defeated once and in one subsequent fight with that fighter, the marked fighter will automatically lose one round of the owner's choosing. This is an at will ability. Marked fighters who lose a match to the owner of the fighter marked again. Marked fighters who defeat the owner of the item lose their mark.

 

[Phoenix8008]

Okay, so there seems to be a majority consensus on a few issues at least:

1. The item creation system should stay based on Yen.
2. A fighter should only be able to POSSESS one empowered item at a time.
3. If a fighter with a fully charged item(number of powers equal to their number of tiers) loses a tier, then the most recent power added to the item is temporarily deactivated until the fighter regains that tier.

4.? A possible consensus (I don't see anyone saying that they don't like the idea...) on item powers being permanent for the creator but one-shot for anyone else that has the tiers to access the powers. (So theoretically, a 5th tier fighter with a 5 power item could give it to a 2nd tier fighter who could then use the first two powers in the item one time each. He could then give it back to the 5th tier fighter who would then have a 3 power item with powers permanent for him still.)

Wicht, a few questions:

Q1: Why should the fighter have to buy the original item? Why not have that be free and just pay for the powers that you put into the item? Yen will be rare enough that I think paying for the original item is too much trouble.

Q2: Can we cahnge "Real" to "Empowered" or something else? It just sounds kinda funny and "Empowered" seems more accurate to me.

Q3: Can Sash powers be added to an item? If not, then the balance slips away a little further as the Sashes can make items with powers from other Paths, but noone can make items with Sash powers.

Q4: If an item is given away and all it's powers are used up via one-shot's, then why should it still be considered "Real" or "Empowered"? The way I envisioned it, the item would become a regular item again with no powers for anyone. Not even if it was given back to the original creator. Any powers that are used via one-shots by someone else are GONE FOREVER FOR ALL USERS. This of course assumes that the original item is nothing special. Maybe you are trying to simulate the way D&D requires you to buy a Masterwork item before making it magical. That is the only explanation I can think of, but I'd rather not go that direction here in YB. Just simpler for the original item to be free and normal as far as I'm concerned. Otherwise you end up spending precious Yen for something that doesn't give you any in-game benefit if you can't afford to empower it right away.

Q5: Are all of the powers an item can possess usable only once per fight? If so, please make this appearent in the rules.

Anybody disagree that the items listed above are pretty much a consensus? I'd appreciate any answers Wicht or others could give to the 4 questions I posed also. Opinions on issues relating to these questions are invited also.

 

[MidKnight]

Would you only be able to hold a single mark per person or could you have several marks per fighter you have beaten?

Ex.. MidKnight has a sword that has the Mark power. He defeats Sidhe Li, thus gaining a mark against the fighter. Then, later, he fights Sidhe Li again but doesn't use the mark ability. He defeats Sidhe Li after a long bloody battle . Would you gain a second mark in this case or would you only be able to have one per person at a time?

 

[Phoenix8008]

I would think that the item could only Mark one person at a time.

 

[Wicht]

Would you only be able to hold a single mark per person or could you have several marks per fighter you have beaten?

Ex.. MidKnight has a sword that has the Mark power. He defeats Sidhe Li, thus gaining a mark against the fighter. Then, later, he fights Sidhe Li again but doesn't use the mark ability. He defeats Sidhe Li after a long bloody battle . Would you gain a second mark in this case or would you only be able to have one per person at a time?

I was thinking 1 per person at a time but multiple fighters can be marked. The 1 per person at a time means that a fighter would be foolish not to use the power in a fight against the marked person.

However, the item gives no benefit against unmarked people so it is only good if the person to be marked loses once in the first place.


As to the questions Phoenix asked.
1) I did not want the first power to cost only 5 yen - that seemed too cheap, but enabling a person to buy the item for 5 and then power it for 5 at a later date means the person does not have to hoard the yen until they have enough

2) I like "real", but if enough want "empowered" it won't hurt my feelings

3) I personally would prefer to keep the "crowd please" and "profiteer" powers sash only but its open to discussion. I already added "hard hitter" to the list of powers on the now "completed" rules thread. I would argue in defense that the Dark and Light both have powers not available to other paths through items.

4) If we change the original item to being free then I could see this point - but I thought be keeping the "gift" always worth at least 5 yen it made gift giving a little more meaningful.

5) oops - all "at will" powers should only be used once per fight per power known - i will add this in

as to the consensus ideas - they are already incorporated

 

[Zappo]

So one can't own a permanent item and a one-shot item?

 

[Phoenix8008]

1) I did not want the first power to cost only 5 yen - that seemed too cheap, but enabling a person to buy the item for 5 and then power it for 5 at a later date means the person does not have to hoard the yen until they have enough.

I can kinda understand not wanting the first power to only cost 5 Yen, but they might as well hoard the Yen since buying the original item here gives no benefit for having spent the first 5 Yen. I'd say just let 'em start powering it up even if it's cheap to start with. With the other restrictions, there shouldn't be a huge glut of items still.

2) I like "real", but if enough want "empowered" it won't hurt my feelings

Okay, what do others think?

3) I personally would prefer to keep the "crowd please" and "profiteer" powers sash only but its open to discussion. I already added "hard hitter" to the list of powers on the now "completed" rules thread. I would argue in defense that the Dark and Light both have powers not available to other paths through items.

For how long will those powers stay prohibited? Only powers on the published list will be available for inclusion in items? We'll see I guess.

4) If we change the original item to being free then I could see this point - but I thought be keeping the "gift" always worth at least 5 yen it made gift giving a little more meaningful.

But what use is the "gift" if it then keeps you from being able to have an item like everyone else? People will just throw away the empty vessel and move on...

5) oops - all "at will" powers should only be used once per fight per power known - i will add this in as to the consensus ideas - they are already incorporated

Thanks, the thought of people using these powers literally "at will" was just too scary to contemplate...

 

[Wicht]

Okay three questions to get consensus on and then I think we will be mostly done...

1) Should one be able to have both 1 temporary and 1 permanent item?

2) Should an item have a base cost or should just the first power have a cost?

3)Should Pure Spirit, Foul Spirit, Profiteer, and Crowd Pleaser be item powers

and one more
4) What other powers might an item add - just ideas if you can't do rules - we can always work them out

 

[Zappo]

1) Should one be able to have both 1 temporary and 1 permanent item?

Yes! Actually, 1 permanent and any number of temporary.

2) Should an item have a base cost or should just the first power have a cost?

Mmm... base cost for permanent items and just the power for one-use items?

3)Should Pure Spirit, Foul Spirit, Profiteer, and Crowd Pleaser be item powers

Yes to Pure/Foul Spirit, but make them cost as activated power (they do not depend on the generator, after all). No to Profiteer and Crowd Pleaser (yen must stay rare).

 

[Phoenix8008]

Okay, here are my votes:

1) Yes, a fighter may possess one permanent item he has created along with one item given by another which has some number of one-use powers.

2) The item to be empowered should be free and only the empowering should cost.

3) I think it would be easiest if the list of powers that can be put in an item is the same as the possible powers for all paths. If that opens it up too much (like for the perfect attack or defense) then put a tier prerequisite on all the powers so that the fighter can only add that power to an item if he is of a high enough tier already. So it would take a 7th tier fighter to add a 7th tier power to an item. Then make this list the be-all and end-all for item powers with no future alterations. Otherwise, you will end up with people creating their own powers all over the place and the balance will dissapear.

4) No clue. I only suggest that the list of item powers be finalized before the reset happens and then we have no additions to it after that for the reasons I stated in my answer to question #3.

 

[Left-handed Hummingbird]

@1 - No, no fighter should have more than one active "item" (why not keep calling it 'an artifact'?). At least not in any fight. If we decide to have multiple artifacts per fighter (*shudder* ), I propose the fighters are limited to one item per fight.

@2 - I don't know. If we remove the item base cost I think the first power should be more expensive regardless.

@3 - I agree with Zappo; Pure/Foul Spirit as activated power. Flat out "No!" to Profiteer and Crowd Pleaser as this would create Yen inflation and undermine the balance of the paths.

@4 - I agree with Phoenix.

 

[Wicht]

Incidentally - and just curious - reflecting on pure spirit and foul spirit - who would purchase pure spirit for an item? And why would you spend the money on an ability to pick the length of a match instead of an ability to help you win that match? Is it really worth putting these into the mix?

 

[Left-handed Hummingbird]

I don't know? Some characters might find it important?

 

[Wicht]

I don't know? Some characters might find it important?

Well, I will grant some might want foul spirit for IC reasons

But pure spirit simply means you automatically lose insult rounds. Why not just forfeit the insult round without paying 5 yen (or more) for the privilege of doing so?

 

[Left-handed Hummingbird]

Point taken.

 

[Jackal]

@1 - No, no fighter should have more than one active "item" (why not keep calling it 'an artifact'?). At least not in any fight. If we decide to have multiple artifacts per fighter (*shudder* ), I propose the fighters are limited to one item per fight.

@2 - I don't know. If we remove the item base cost I think the first power should be more expensive regardless.

@3 - I agree with Zappo; Pure/Foul Spirit as activated power. Flat out "No!" to Profiteer and Crowd Pleaser as this would create Yen inflation and undermine the balance of the paths.

@4 - I agree with Phoenix.

I agree with the above.

 

[Wicht]

Here is another item idea. I haven't added it cuz I am not certain about it but I think it is likely balanced. Opinions?

Charmed Once per fight per charmed possessed, the fighter may reduce the point total of any successful attack against him to only 1 point. This is an at will power.

 

[Berandor]

1. One item to wield them all

2. initial costs welcome

3. Foul Spirit/Pure Spirit yes, the other no. BTW, Berandor WOULD have bought Pure Spirit for the item, he forfeited the insult rounds only because he didn't have this power.

4. No idea. Charmed? I dunno.
Marked: If you use the mark power in a fight, you may not mark the fighter you are fighting. You must wait for the next fight with him.
Otherwise, this could become a vicious circle. Losing because of mark, and being marked in the process...

Berandor

 

[Rathan]

my votes

1.) One item.... no more....

2.) I'd say....let the item be free or a gift from someone.... just make the power you have to buy...not the item as well....

3.) foul/pure sprit are ok......but HELL NO to those two sash powers.....

4a.) Holy Avenger/Foul Blade....... I'm thining these two would be VERY expensive.......but the idea would be well..... they would be able to do "draw over's" or "coversions" in battle.... you know what I mean??? thing is...it comes with a sting if it fails.... loss of two ranks.......... or if sucsessfull...... gain of two ranks......... oh yea.... this would HAVE to be one shot...... now way could this be used "at will".....

4b.) as well.... maybe a Mind Thief ability power??? I really don't know about this one tho..... this one would be expensive as well...

 

[Zappo]

No, I don't think super-powerful and super-expensive abilities should be in. That would really be too much an advantage for the sashes.

I *can't* see what's the problem with owning multiple items when only one of them is permanent and all the others are destroyed after use, while I've given many reasons in favor of doing so. Anyone explain?