TSR Running list of potential problematic issues in TSR era DnD

[Snarf Zagyg]

For the purposes of this discussion it very much is. A much better one is found in the Urban Dictionary:

Again, I happen to use ... an actual dictionary. And I happen to use the word in keeping with the way I normally use it, and in the dictionary definition ... and exactly how I used it in context.

Snarf: I have a discriminating palate.

HJFudge: OOOOO! YOU JUST SAID YOU GOT A RACIST TONGUE!!!!!!

Snarf: What? I only meant that I was discerning when it came to taste.

HJFudge: NOPE NOPE NOPE! URBAN DICTIONARY SAYS U R RACIST!!!!!! SEE, DICTIONARY!!!!!!!

Ugh. Why bother?

 

[HJFudge]

Again, I happen to use ... an actual dictionary. And I happen to use the word in keeping with the way I normally use it, and in the dictionary definition ... and exactly how I used it in context.

Snarf: I have a discriminating palate.

HJFudge: OOOOO! YOU JUST SAID YOU GOT A RACIST TONGUE!!!!!!

Snarf: What? I only meant that I was discerning when it came to taste.

HJFudge: NOPE NOPE NOPE! URBAN DICTIONARY SAYS U R RACIST!!!!!! SEE, DICTIONARY!!!!!!!

Ugh. Why bother?

What are you talking about? I never once said you were racist. Not...not even close! I never even implied it!!

I said that your definition was not useful.

Ironically, the concept of your dictionary being REAL but the Urban Dictionary is NOT REAL is, in fact, Gatekeeping.

 

[Wicked Woodpecker]

Again, I happen to use ... an actual dictionary. And I happen to use the word in keeping with the way I normally use it, and in the dictionary definition ... and exactly how I used it in context.

Problem is - gatekeeping is commonly used in nerd community associated with certain set of practices.
Wonky mechanics overall does not belong to those practices (unless you are willing to take ALL gaming as gatekeeping because every set of rules makes some limitations).

So sure technically you can use this word and shield yourself with dictionary. It's just bad for discussion.

 

[Faolyn]

But how do you draw or paint it? How do you give it a visual without incorporating a cultural artifact?

Depends on what the weapon ends up being and what it's made of. Like, if I decide that the people make their swords out of some sort of shaped crystal, inlaid with precious metals for those who can afford it, and wrapped in monster hide, I might come up with this (thank goodness for tablets and styluses and a youth spent drawing swords):

And it's sort of reminiscent of swords from different cultures, but I didn't have any reference material in front of me so it's not meant to be any one culture specifically.

I'd have to spend a lot longer coming up with a person, and specifically what that person is wearing, and I'm not as good at drawing people.

(I'm sure someone who actually knows something about swords can point out how this is terribly balanced and would never work in real life.)

You could still be probably accused of appropriation because you were using what they call 'coding', or words that have traditionally been used to represent a specific group (in this case its a part of that groups culture).

Well, for that case, could you point out the actual coding here? Because I think I went vague enough there. Many cultures have warrior groups, whether they were European knights or Japanese samurai or a modern armed service. Many cultures have castes. Many warrior groups have codes of honor.

And there's the other problem of, it's almost impossible to make something completely original. We're all going to take inspiration from somewhere. The point is to not be insulting about it and to at least try to make something new.

 

[HJFudge]

Well, for that case, could you point out the actual coding here? Because I think I went vague enough there. Many cultures have warrior groups, whether they were European knights or Japanese samurai or a modern armed service. Many cultures have castes. Many warrior groups have codes of honor.

Forgive me if it seemed that I think that there would actually BE coding, but yes they'd point specifically to the castes and codes of honor. It really doesnt matter which group, we can see this in complaints of racial coding made in the portrayal of orcs. At first, it was primarily meant to depict Asians, then it was argued to depict Africans, but at the end of the day which it depicted wasn't important to those claiming that it was coding.

So while yes other groups have had such things, the fact that a culture they (the claimant) felt was discriminated against had those things would be the issue at hand.

Again, yes, it IS silly and no it is NOT correct but that is the argument.

And there's the other problem of, it's almost impossible to make something completely original. We're all going to take inspiration from somewhere. The point is to not be insulting about it and to at least try to make something new.

There is nothing new under the sun, as they say.

 

[Weiley31]

Too easily meta-breakable, for one thing.

If one's deities (and thus Clerics) each have specific spheres of knowledge or influence, allowing someone to be a Cleric to multiple deities at once opens that character up to being able to access far more spheres than it should.

Ditto if one's gone so far as to break out spell lists or even individual spells into deity-specific variants. A simplistic example: a water deity might enhance all water-affecting spells for its Clerics while reducing the effectiveness of their fire-based spells; a fire-based deity might do the opposite. Allowing a Cleric to gain powers from both deities means both types of spells get enhanced without a corresponding drawback.

This also puts Clerics from races or cultures that only have one deity (e.g. Dwarves in many settings only have Moradin) at a distinct disadvantage.

Also, in the fiction this assumes the deities get along with each other, which ain't always the case; meaning a DM would have to do quite a bit of work to come up with all the deity combinations that could support a Cleric along with those that could/would not. Not too onerous if your setting's entire pantheon is only 15 or 20 deities that don't overlap very much; a bigger headache when you've got well over 70, as I do; or over 125, as my current DM has.

This guy gets it.

 

[Faolyn]

Also, in the fiction this assumes the deities get along with each other, which ain't always the case; meaning a DM would have to do quite a bit of work to come up with all the deity combinations that could support a Cleric along with those that could/would not. Not too onerous if your setting's entire pantheon is only 15 or 20 deities that don't overlap very much; a bigger headache when you've got well over 70, as I do; or over 125, as my current DM has.

This is even doubly difficult if you have a "living" pantheon where the gods are still getting up to their shenanigans, as opposed the typical D&D pantheon where those deeds all happened in the distant past.

...Now I'm picturing a series of tables.

DM, plotting out the deity's actions for the next few sessions: so... <rolls on table 1> so the goddess of wine is going to... <rolls on table 2> steal something important from... <rolls on table 1 again> the god of the forge because she's... <rolls on table 3> jealous of the forge god's... <rolls on table 4> relationship with... <rolls on table 1> the god of wolves. OK, so, maybe that means that wolves are now going to have advantage on attack rolls made against people who favor the goddess of wine. At least until she apologies. And the thing she stole from the forge god is... <rolls on table 7> his fire so... she stole the coals from his forge and flung them to the ground. Meteor shower time!

Anyone wanna help me make some tables?

 

[Ralif Redhammer]

McWhorter is not without his controversies, to say the least.

That is what some say, and that currently is the political fad, yes.

There are alternate viewpoints. For some reading in that venue I suggest basically any content by the whipsmart Ph.D. John McWhorter.

It Bears Mentioning | Substack

Sometimes race, sometimes language, sometimes something else. Every week. Click to read It Bears Mentioning, a Substack publication with tens of thousands of subscribers.

johnmcwhorter.substack.com

 

[Wicked Woodpecker]

This is even doubly difficult if you have a "living" pantheon where the gods are still getting up to their shenanigans, as opposed the typical D&D pantheon where those deeds all happened in the distant past.

...Now I'm picturing a series of tables.

DM, plotting out the deity's actions for the next few sessions: so... <rolls on table 1> so the goddess of wine is going to... <rolls on table 2> steal something important from... <rolls on table 1 again> the god of the forge because she's... <rolls on table 3> jealous of the forge god's... <rolls on table 4> relationship with... <rolls on table 1> the god of wolves. OK, so, maybe that means that wolves are now going to have advantage on attack rolls made against people who favor the goddess of wine. At least until she apologies. And the thing she stole from the forge god is... <rolls on table 7> his fire so... she stole the coals from his forge and flung them to the ground. Meteor shower time!

Anyone wanna help me make some tables?

That's actually awesome idea for pseudo-ancient D&D campaign. Roll each week or month whether some deities shenanigans would influence mortal world (and maybe even PCs) :3

 

[Jfdlsjfd]

This is even doubly difficult if you have a "living" pantheon where the gods are still getting up to their shenanigans, as opposed the typical D&D pantheon where those deeds all happened in the distant past.

...Now I'm picturing a series of tables.

DM, plotting out the deity's actions for the next few sessions: so... <rolls on table 1> so the goddess of wine is going to... <rolls on table 2> steal something important from... <rolls on table 1 again> the god of the forge because she's... <rolls on table 3> jealous of the forge god's... <rolls on table 4> relationship with... <rolls on table 1> the god of wolves. OK, so, maybe that means that wolves are now going to have advantage on attack rolls made against people who favor the goddess of wine. At least until she apologies. And the thing she stole from the forge god is... <rolls on table 7> his fire so... she stole the coals from his forge and flung them to the ground. Meteor shower time!

Anyone wanna help me make some tables?

It's actually an excellent idea. And pre-rolling a complex sets of "things" happening with gods could generate modifier on several tasks, some of which might actually benefits heroes. TADAAA suddenly, you need to spend gold to pay for sacrificing a hundread cattle to the god in order for the diviner to provide this information and heroes that would do something ancient heroes did: "we spent three days waiting for the omen to be favorable before besieging the city of thebe" "OK, we can attack now the BBEG or wait three days. He'll have more followers arriving but we'll get advantage on attack rolls with pointed sticks because the god of pointed sticks is currently having an affair with our queen, giving blessing to all the kingdom". Genre emulation, GP drain at high level, incentive to use other strategies than the exact same one because of mechanical opportunity? You're a genius. We need a lot of tables.