D&D 4E Running player commentary on PCat's 4E Campaign - Heroic tier (finished)

[Dungeoneer]

This thread is made of win. I've just spent like four days reading the entire thing. It's given me so many ideas for DMing, but most of all it's made me wish I could find a DM as awesome (or even just NEARLY as awesome) as PKitty to play with.

Keep it coming please!

 

[Blackjack]

It surprises me that you guys are taking so long to get through the ghoul hole. Three sessions to resolve an almost side-trek.

If it were just a "side-trek", it wouldn't have (at least) four combats in it...

 

[Sagiro]

Run #38 was last night. Most of it was occupied with the ghoulish Battle Royale mentioned in my previous post. Some notes on the battle:

• Unlike the previous battles, this one took place in a fairly open underground “chapel” that was about 15 squares long and 10 squares wide. Theoretically we'd have a little more tactical flexibility.
• However, exactly like the previous battles, we were battling ghouls who inflicted Immobilized on every hit, which made it difficult to take advantage of said theoretical tactical flexibility. This was our 4th straight battle in the ghoul-infested hell-hole; Piratecat's mission to make us hate ghouls was a rousing success!
• It wasn't just a wide-open room; there was a coffin and an altar providing cover, as well as about a half dozen holes in the ground, dotting the battle-space. There was also a small staircase leading up to a cover-providing pulpit at the far end from where we entered.
• We were facing down a ghoulish bride and her two equally undead bridesmaids at the start, and these were soon joined by three ghoulish minions (males, naturally) who scrambled up out of the holes. Most of these engaged us in melee, while the bride scrambled up to the pulpit and attacked us at range from relative safety.
• Regarding the holes: these were only about five feet deep, but led to an interconnected series of tunnels that the ghouls could use to pop up all over the battlefield.
• For all of their fearsome immobilization and dazing abilities, the bridesmaids didn't have huge numbers of hit points, and our superior numbers allowed us to whittle them down fairly quickly.
• The Bride had a long-stretchy-tongue pulling power that she tried to use on the rogue Logan, who was crouched behind the altar. The attack missed by one – thanks to the cover bonus for the altar itself. Hooray, cover!
• When things were going poorly for her team, the Bride gave up her superior tactical position, used the hole-network, and emerged in our midst. I think that was a mistake for her, as she had at least one devastating long-range area burst that did massive damage to almost the whole party. (Maybe that was an encounter power, or at least a charge power? I was expecting that she'd keep the high ground and bombard us until we managed to advance across the room.) Once she emerged, we went nova-ish on her:
• Bramble used a daily she had been saving for just this occasion, which gave everyone +2 to hit against her for the rest of the encounter.
• Cobalt blew his Action Point to hit with both Dazing Strike and Imperiling Strike in the same round. So, for the round following, we all had +2 to hit from Bramble, +2 to hit for combat advantage against a dazed enemy, and an effective +4 to hit against AC and Reflex from the Imperiling Strike. We piled on massive damage in a hurry, and soon she was at one hit point and fleeing for her “life” through the tunnels.
• At which point the wizard Strontium used Light as a minor, gave chase as a move, and as soon as she saw the fleeing Bride ahead of her, cast Magic Missile as a standard. Thanks to recent errata, Magic Missile can't miss. Goodbye, ghoul-bride!
• There was absolutely no grind in the final battle, for a couple of reasons. For one thing, the enemies had fearsome attacks but few hit points. For another, we were all at -2 defenses when near most of the ghouls, while at the end we all had +2 to hit against the Bride. That meant more hits and fewer misses, which is a key component of grind-prevention.
• Even so... have I mentioned how sick we now are of being %$#@! immobilized all the $#@! time? $#@! ghouls!

Piratecat spiced up the scene with lots of fictional touches, like the bridesmaids giggling girlishly about which one of us was the most handsome when we first arrived. I'll let him cover the storytelling aspects of the run.

Edited to add: Here's an odd rules case that came up. Bramble is technically a Wilden, and so has a racial power "Pursuit of the Hunter."

Trigger: An enemy within 2 squares of you moves on its turn

Effect: You shift 3 squares. Until the end of your next turn, you deal 1d6 extra damage to the triggering enemy when you hit it, and you don’t take the –2 penalty to attack rolls for attacking it when it has cover or concealment.

Our question was: what if an enemy approaches you with stealth, and you don't see her coming? Can that movement still trigger this power? The RaW would say yes, but common sense would say no. Piratecat went back and forth a a bit: his instinct was to go with common sense, but I think he ended up allowing the ability to trigger. What do you readers think?

 

[Legildur]

Edited to add: Here's an odd rules case that came up. Bramble is technically a Wilden, and so has a racial power "Pursuit of the Hunter."

Trigger: An enemy within 2 squares of you moves on its turn

Effect: You shift 3 squares. Until the end of your next turn, you deal 1d6 extra damage to the triggering enemy when you hit it, and you don’t take the –2 penalty to attack rolls for attacking it when it has cover or concealment.

Our question was: what if an enemy approaches you with stealth, and you don't see her coming? Can that movement still trigger this power? The RaW would say yes, but common sense would say no. Piratecat went back and forth a a bit: his instinct was to go with common sense, but I think he ended up allowing the ability to trigger. What do you readers think?

What is the fluff description? That could give an indication about the 'common sense' approach.

By the rules, it would appear to work regardless, unless there is some rule sitting in one of the non-PHB books saying you must be aware of the enemy or have line-of-sight for powers to affect.

Though it could be funny seeing a character involuntarily shift 3 squares in a random direction... "Whoa! Something invisible is here!"

 

[Piratecat]

My final decision was that she broke stealth when she rushed out to attack. I did waffle a bit, though.

The bridesmaids had 103 hp each; the ghoul bride had (iirc) about 260. Her necrotic spittle was an encounter power, as was the tongue attack. Her necrotic breath was a recharge, but I kept rolling poorly!

More on the game later thus weekend, when I'm not typing on my phone.

 

[Markn]

Edited to add: Here's an odd rules case that came up. Bramble is technically a Wilden, and so has a racial power "Pursuit of the Hunter."

Trigger: An enemy within 2 squares of you moves on its turn

Effect: You shift 3 squares. Until the end of your next turn, you deal 1d6 extra damage to the triggering enemy when you hit it, and you don’t take the –2 penalty to attack rolls for attacking it when it has cover or concealment.

Our question was: what if an enemy approaches you with stealth, and you don't see her coming? Can that movement still trigger this power? The RaW would say yes, but common sense would say no. Piratecat went back and forth a a bit: his instinct was to go with common sense, but I think he ended up allowing the ability to trigger. What do you readers think?

I think the Effect line indicates your answer - it specifically points out the -2 pentalty to cover and conealment which is pretty specific and seems to indicate vision is required as total conealment gives a -5 penalty and this type of penalty is not mentioned in the effect at all.

 

[Piratecat]

It was a good fight, with the ghoul-tunnels being used as a handy shortcut around the battlefield. The ghoul bride was named Lucilla. Her fiance had left her at the altar, pregnant and humiliated. After she took her own life the church refused to bury her on consecrated ground. Even dead, her burning anger didn't take that very kindly. She gradually turned other women in the graveyard as they were buried. Capturing living men to make them her husband would reduce them to a gibbering husk within a few days, but that was more than enough time to try to become a mother once again. The ghoulish babies stuck around.

Evil, self-involved and horribly delusional is a bad combination.

Treasure included a holy symbol no one could use (which was sold to one of the other men imprisoned in the church), Eli Caldwell's Grey Guard pin improving to a neck item that allowed him to remove any one condition a save could end, and a prophetic orb that granted visions and aided in scrying rituals. The warforged Strontium got a vision when he picked it up. You may or may not remember that Strontium may have been, in his "youth", the imperial inquisitor that conquered the province of Iskaine from fleeing halflings. Now there's another inquisitor in the province, the one who handled the quick military invasion with the colossus.

[sblock=Strontium's vision]You smell smoke and fire and dust, lots of dust. The floor is rocking, so you must be on a ship, and you're on your knees in front of someone. You hear screams coming from somewhere. Imperial marines stand around you with their spears drawn. You can see your hands shaking; they're the spotted and veined hands of an old man. You can't see the face of the person standing in front of you, but his boots are of astonishing quality; even with the dust, you can see your reflection in them.

Hey, you know this face! Your reflection is that of the old man you spoke to in the inn on your way down the Isken to Bressail, the old sage who identified your sigil as that of Inquisitor Zacris, the Eye of the Crown, Zacris the Undying. Yoris? Yotis? Something like that.

"He's seen him, sir." A marine is speaking. "He's seen him. Apparently the suspect is in disguise and travelling with the Grey Guard. He was last seen coming here, and apparently was one of the traitors who opened the gates."

"'Traitor' is a harsh word, Captain," comes the heavy voice from in front of you. "I'd be cautious of using it if I were you."

"Y-y-yes, sir," stammers the marine.

"Find them. Spare no expense. I want to know what he's playing at. And you?" A gloved hand reaches down and yanks you effortlessly to your feet. You're now staring into the face of another warforged. "Come and have a nice chat with Inquisitor Rhen." It smiles.

The last thing you hear is the old man's scream.
[/sblock]

 

[Plane Sailing]

Our question was: what if an enemy approaches you with stealth, and you don't see her coming? Can that movement still trigger this power? The RaW would say yes, but common sense would say no. Piratecat went back and forth a a bit: his instinct was to go with common sense, but I think he ended up allowing the ability to trigger. What do you readers think?

Personally? Common sense trumps RaW every time

I guess KidCthulhu is pleased with the Magic Missile change then?

 

[webrunner]

We ended the game with the group deciding to harass the gang boss by taking out his lieutenants. If they systematically dismantle his protection, they figure he's going to get scared and get sloppy.

Excellent work, Agent! With his defeat, your chances to take down the crime boss have now increased. Now go back to searching for Agility Orbs.

 

[Sagiro]

Last night was the 39th run of the campaign, and it featured a pair of exciting combats that could well have been one brutal one. Note that we had a guest player – the son of Logan's player – who played an infernal warlock.

We were on the road again after leaving behind the creepy ghoulish bridal party, still fleeing the destroyed city of Bressail along with Caldwell's family and many hundreds (if not thousands) of ragtag refugees. We now find ourselves leading a particularly large group, who have figured out they're safer if they stick near Good-aligned Trained Combat Professionals(tm).

The road northward runs mostly parallel to a 40' wide river, but occasionally crosses it. At one of these crossings, the bridge had been hacked apart, and a smaller one-person-wide rope bridge had been strung across instead.

“Guarding” the bridge, and demanding “tolls,” was a band of local defectors from the military. They had ditched their old insignia, but had kept their armor and crossbows. There were five on the near side of the river and another 10 or so on the far side. Their leader, du Chenoselle, was a big hairy guy with a bushy beard. He demanded a gold piece per person, and also that we give away our pack mule.

After some predictable repartee, during which we did give them the opportunity to surrender, Caldwell instigated hostilities by planting an arrow in Du Chenoselle's leg. Big Beardy gave a whistle, and ordered his men to kill Caldwell first, but didn't get a chance to do much more than that: Bramble used Thunderwave (a power she has due to her wizard multiclass feat), and knocked him back into the river, which whisked him away.

After that, it was a fight between the seven of us, and fifteen minions with crossbows. No, make that thirty-five crossbowmen; du Chenoselle's whistle had summoned reinforcements from behind some surrounding hills. Ten of the newcomers joined those on the far side of the river, while another ten appeared on our side, flanking us on nearby hills. Uh oh.

Notes on the battle that followed:

• It was 34 minions (Level 8 crossbow thugs) vs. 7 level 8 PC's. On the good side, we took out a bunch on the first round, before the twenty additional enemies showed up, so there were never 34 at once.
  
• The minions did 7 points of damage on a hit, and rated to hit a typical party member about 50% of the time, so there was real potential for badness...
  
• ...but in practice, we slaughtered them. On the first round, Strontium ran to the near side of the knocked out bridge, and burned an Action Point to land two Scorching Bursts on the knots of enemies on the far side. 5 minions gone. Gilran used Spark Form and despite bad rolls, took out two more. Cobalt used an At Will followed by Low Slash to take out another two. The guest sorcerer traveling with us took out a bunch with some kind of hellfire. Logan popped another with his own crossbow.
  
• Meanwhile, the Shaman Bramble gave us all 9 temp hp off the top, which helped a bunch, and also used her utility that gives everyone adjacent to her Spirit Companion DR 4 for the rest of the encounter. That was a perfect solution to suffering a large number of small attacks.
  
• We did suffer two severe focus-fire volleys – one on Caldwell (5 hits for 35 points) and one on Strontium (4 hits for 28 points). But before round three was over, we had dispatched almost all of the enemies, mostly thanks Strontium, Gilran and the sorcerer. (Piratecat – what was his name?)
  
• Probably our luckiest break came from Gilran's roll on Chaotic Defense. He rolled a 3, which resulted in “Until the end of the encounter, each creature that attacks you takes 2d6 damage.” Ha! After that he charged across the rope bridge, managed to hold on when it flipped upside-down, and ran right into the midst of the enemy. Most of them shied away after one of them turned into a cloud of butterflies upon shooting, but Gilran taunted several more into attacking. Pop. Pop pop pop!
  
• The encounter was soon over. One minion escaped, fleeing in terror. Only Stron and Caldwell had suffered significant damage, and that was soon healed. Bramble used her Lower Water ritual to clear a dry path across the river, for our train of civilians.
  
• But things were not over yet. A few minutes later, while we were scouting on the far side, Bramble heard someone approaching along the riverbank from downstream. It was du Chenoselle, dripping wet and furious! He charged into our midst, and as he did so, he starting to transform – into a werewolf! So now it was battle number two, a huge switcheroo, going from 34 minions to a single solo beast.
  
• Despite some fearsome attacks, regeneration, and a boatload of hit points (check out Frenzied Werewolf in Adventure Tools), we smacked this guy around pretty well. I shudder to think how the battle might have gone if he was attacking simultaneously with his minions, but as it was, we just unloaded dailies and encounters powers on him. Of particular note were:
  
• Bramble's War Chieftain's Blessing, that gave us all +2 to hit against du Chenoselle for the entire fight.
  
• Logan's Killer's Ambush, which did something like 40 points of damage (on 3d10+2d8+7)
  
• Cobalt's Bloodbath (2d4+14+2d8+4, +16 ongoing damage (save ends)). Even though the werewolf only took the ongoing damage once, that was still about 50 points of damage from a single hit.
  
• Logan also hit with Go for the Eyes, which blinded him for a turn.
  
• And Cobalt hit him with Dazing Strike, meaning we had Combat Advantage against him for pretty much the entire fight.
  
• During one two-round stretch of battle, the werewolf was suffering (during one round, the other, or parts of both) -2 to all his defenses, blindness, couldn't shift, was at -2 to hit, was slowed, was deafened, was at -4 to AC and Relfex, and was dazed. Poor guy.
  
• Even so, he managed to inflict the Moon Frenzy disease on both Cobalt and Caldwell before going down. Fortunately Dr. Caldwell is an actual doctor who had studied lycanthropy at University; he recognized the danger and used the Cure Disease ritual. The result: we each took half our health in damage, and started vomiting up wolf parts – teeth, hair, claws, etc. Yuck! It did cure us, though.
  
• In order to kill the beast permanently, we sharpened two silver coins down to points, and smashed them into its eyes with dagger-pommels.
  
• These fights were refreshing changes after the constricted ghoul tunnels of the last couple of runs. There were wide open spaces on either side of the river, but with plenty of carts, crates etc. to hide behind if you wanted, and the rope bridge offered an interesting choke-point. The distance across the river was just enough to make small differences in positioning matter – like barely allowing Strontium to get within 10 squares of knots of minions, but only at the cost of making himself an exposed target away from the rest of the group. And some of the minions were at -2 to hit with their crossbows, due to the distances involved.
  
• Random fact we discovered after the combat, when we found some enchanted leather armor: of the six PC's, five of us wear leather armor, and the sixth wears robes. Nothing heavier than that in the whole group.

Usual disclaimer: I'm certainly forgetting interesting details from the session. Piratecat and the other players: chime in!