D&D 5E Sane Magic Item Prices

[Crimson Longinus]

Even if you don't have magic markets and magic items for sale, it is useful to have some rough guide for the relative value of differnt items. The DMG pretends to offer that, but the system is obviously completely bonkers.

 

[CapnZapp]

Even if you don't have magic markets and magic items for sale, it is useful to have some rough guide for the relative value of differnt items. The DMG pretends to offer that, but the system is obviously completely bonkers.

This.

This here is why I have to preface "magic item pricing" with "utility-based" since WotC came up with the idea to offer something random just to be able to say they do have magic item prices.

No, dude.

We don't just need random numbers. We want prices where items that help more cost more.

Having to prefix "Utility-based" is just annoying. Of course we mean utility-based, anything else is just random and irrational.

But it's low-effort and no maintenance - you can't really critize prices that are all over the place.

So they abandoned having to balance prices and got away with it.

At least I had this document to save my sanity back when I first DMd 5th edition...

 

[Blue]

Then don't use prices. Your position only denies fun to those who like magic item shopping.

The lack of utility-based magic item pricing, that gold is worthless, remains one of the biggest weaknesses of the entire edition.

Gold is incredibly useful to characters. I can't believe you of all people would repeat the mantra of players calibrated to the magic-item-as-part-of-character-advancement that it's useful.

Gold is in-game. There are unlimited good uses for gold in-game.

Gold is in-game. Using it as a proxy for character sheet adjustments isn't what they are using it for in 5e.

It figuratively blows my mind when people claim it's not useful. It's like if I gave you a billion in real life, and you didn't want it because you couldn't get an upgrade to how wise you are nor let you teleport at will - because those aren't things you can buy with money. It still has a ridiculous number of uses.

 

[CapnZapp]

Gold is incredibly useful to characters.

I don't agree but that's besides the point.

The point is that don't use this to argue you can remove magic item prices without losing something.

And if that's not why you're making the argument, fair enough, different playing styles and all that.

But don't presume to speak for other gamers, thankyouverymuch.

 

[Maxperson]

I don't agree but that's besides the point.

The point is that don't use this to argue you can remove magic item prices without losing something.

And if that's not why you're making the argument, fair enough, different playing styles and all that.

But don't presume to speak for other gamers, thankyouverymuch.

It's not a playstyle thing, though. It just takes a small bit of imagination to come up with ways to spend the money. One of my players is playing a cleric who has shrines and temples being built in multiple towns and cities that he has discovered have no such buildings to his god. Another bought a family member a patent of nobility.

We are not saying that you should not have magic items prices. We are saying that the claim that gold is useless is bunk. It's only as useless as you choose to make it. 5e did not take away its usefulness. With or without magic items prices, there are many ways for a PC to spend his gold.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I have a distinct dislike for the PDF listed here. For a few reasons.

1) I have a DM who actually uses this. We are in a party that spent months racking up gold over multiple levels. Each of our characters has about 8,000 gold for personal use. We can't afford anything we actually want for our characters. The price for an item I wanted was assumed to about the same as a PactKeeper rod... and was priced somewhere around 20,000 gp. We ended up with the entire party, who had spent months talking about getting to the city and finally spending all of our gold, all walk out of that shop with nothing to show for it.

2) Part of the pricing that is the most insane are the things that he wrote for "clever players". Like the Decanter of Endless Water which I think he priced somewhere around 300,000 gp. Because "clever" players might buy one, head to the desert, and make a lot of money.

Look, players who are "clever" are going to be able to make a lot of money. Period. End of sentence, that is all there is too it. Play a Cleric, by 3rd level you could charge 50 gp per lesser restoration and 20 gp per Cure Wounds, utilizing just daily slots that is 160 gp per day or 4,800 gp per month. And that might take an hour's work, so then you could go and use your crafting skills to make something and sell it for even more money.

I'm not even trying. A 5th level Druid or Cleric can make literally tens of thousands of gold with just Plant Growth.

Pricing items at extreme gold value for fear of "clever" players is nonsensical. They don't need that item to make bank, they can do that with just their skills and spells.

I'll never say the DMG pricing guide is perfect, but the Sane Magical Prices guide is absurd, and it only takes a brief glance through the list to realize this.

 

[CapnZapp]

It's not a playstyle thing, though. It just takes a small bit of imagination to come up with ways to spend the money. One of my players is playing a cleric who has shrines and temples being built in multiple towns and cities that he has discovered have no such buildings to his god. Another bought a family member a patent of nobility.

We are not saying that you should not have magic items prices. We are saying that the claim that gold is useless is bunk. It's only as useless as you choose to make it. 5e did not take away its usefulness. With or without magic items prices, there are many ways for a PC to spend his gold.

The only thing I am saying is that one of the biggest weaknesses of 5th edition is the complete absence of utility-based magic item pricing.

"Gold is worthless" is just a commonly occurring way of expressing this. Honing in on this statement in isolation misses the point.

 

[SkidAce]

The only thing I am saying is that one of the biggest weaknesses of 5th edition is the complete absence of utility-based magic item pricing.

I get your point, but I feel stuck in the middle. Would I like a better guide? Sure.

But the value of things can differ greatly from campaign to campaign. Even if you tried to rank them relative to each other, it would be hard based on the campaign. My players would love and value anything radiant and anti-undead in this campaign, but it would have been useless last campaign.

And I agree their are a few glaring examples, but after looking at the difficulty in catering to all campaigns and tables, I am happy with the looser guidelines in XGtE, and letting the DM adjust from there.

 

[Maxperson]

The only thing I am saying is that one of the biggest weaknesses of 5th edition is the complete absence of utility-based magic item pricing.

"Gold is worthless" is just a commonly occurring way of expressing this. Honing in on this statement in isolation misses the point.

Making a point should involve accurate terms. If the point is lost due to the use of grossly inaccurate terms, whose fault is that?

 

[Maxperson]

I have a distinct dislike for the PDF listed here. For a few reasons.

1) I have a DM who actually uses this. We are in a party that spent months racking up gold over multiple levels. Each of our characters has about 8,000 gold for personal use. We can't afford anything we actually want for our characters. The price for an item I wanted was assumed to about the same as a PactKeeper rod... and was priced somewhere around 20,000 gp. We ended up with the entire party, who had spent months talking about getting to the city and finally spending all of our gold, all walk out of that shop with nothing to show for it.

Yeah. This is very table dependent. Some tables enjoy hard to get magic items. Others not so much. Have you talked to the DM about the magic item rate in that game?

2) Part of the pricing that is the most insane are the things that he wrote for "clever players". Like the Decanter of Endless Water which I think he priced somewhere around 300,000 gp. Because "clever" players might buy one, head to the desert, and make a lot of money.

If this worked the desert folks would already have acquired one or several.

Look, players who are "clever" are going to be able to make a lot of money. Period. End of sentence, that is all there is too it. Play a Cleric, by 3rd level you could charge 50 gp per lesser restoration and 20 gp per Cure Wounds, utilizing just daily slots that is 160 gp per day or 4,800 gp per month. And that might take an hour's work, so then you could go and use your crafting skills to make something and sell it for even more money.

Sure, that works if you are playing Booboos and Bedsheets, but if you're playing Dungeons & Dragons, the party probably isn't going to want to leave the Cleric in town to use up all of his slots daily.