sarruth's request(game thread)

[Gideon_Gideonson]

[sblock=OOC]tiluvias99: From what I've seen, the whole thing is very well explained (And thanks for the detailed explainations), and I see no problems other than you being effectively ECL 14 (Level 12+2 for Shadow-2 for Xvart [although I still attest that this isn't a -2...], and +2 for DK) with only 45,736 (which should put you at level 10 class wise, since you're ECL 0). I'm not sure how you have more levels than your XP should indicate.[/sblock]

 

[tiluvias99]

[sblock]GG:
As for how Xvart and Shadow combine:

At the beginning of the game, Cog said that a Xvart character would start at level 12. This was asked about repeatedly, and Cog said that Xvarts would play as written, with -2 LA.
So, I had 12 for the "base" level, then applied the Shadow template, and bought off the template to return to the base level 12.
(Cog, if you feel this is wrong or needs to be changed, please tell me, and I'll cut the template.)


Cog told me that he was having the DK be LA +0. If he feels this needs to be changed to +1 or +2, then that's okay- but I'd much rather simply nerf the template itself (as in remove abilities) and have it remain at LA 0.

Level 12 (Starting Xvart) -2 (Shadow) +1 (LA Buy-Off) +1 (LA Buy-Off) +0 (Death Knight) = 12 (ECL = -2)

As for an HD cap, I'd say about 15, but I'd allow 16 if it's really necessary

Just want to double check, you're sure on this?


Anyway, I'm leaving in a couple hours. I'm sorry I didn't get everything finished before I left- but I'll be back.[/sblock]

 

[Gideon_Gideonson]

[sblock=OOC]Okay. I see the problem here...Cog got the LA stacking rules wrong.

Xvart is a -2. Shadow is a +2. So while a basic Xvart would start ECL 10 with 12 character levels, a Shadow Xvart starts at ECL 10 with 10 levels, since the LA's cancel each other out to +0. At this point, there's nothing to buy off...it's not level 12 with a +2 LA, it's level 10 with a -2 LA and then a +2 LA, meaning ECL 10 with 10 levels.

Which would be much more balanced...especially since being an undead caster means most of the Xvart's penalties are pretty much un-important, and the fact that the 6d4 stat gen system means that ability penalties are not worth as much.

Plus, you'd still start with the 45,000 ECL 10 XP, since it's ECL 10 with a -2 LA, not level 12. And ECL 10 gold, since gold value for ECL races is by total ECL, not level.

Would you object to taking Irthos down to level 10 (probably 9 with the XP costs...)? I think that would solve pretty much every balance issue there, and bring the whole thing back nicely into line.[/sblock]

 

[tiluvias99]

[sblock=OOC]

Plus, you'd still start with the 45,000 ECL 10 XP, since it's ECL 10 with a -2 LA, not level 12. And ECL 10 gold, since gold value for ECL races is by total ECL, not level.

Well, first off, Cog gave us 55,000 xp to start with, and said that, even though we had the EXP of ECL 11 characters, we would be starting at ECL 10- he gave us a 10,000 XP crafting/Buy-Off/Whatever reserve, to do with as we will.

On gold: Really? I had always thought it was based on Level, you know, like the table on page 135 of the DMG says. I might be wrong on this though- do you have a source for that starting wealth is based off of ECL?
(A page number would be nice- not that I don't trust you, just so that I can find it for future reference)

Okay. I see the problem here...Cog got the LA stacking rules wrong.

Xvart is a -2. Shadow is a +2. So while a basic Xvart would start ECL 10 with 12 character levels, a Shadow Xvart starts at ECL 10 with 10 levels, since the LA's cancel each other out to +0. At this point, there's nothing to buy off...it's not level 12 with a +2 LA, it's level 10 with a -2 LA and then a +2 LA, meaning ECL 10 with 10 levels.

I see what you mean. Cog, could we get a ruling on this?


In general, If need be, I'd be much more favorable to just removing the Shadow template, so that I don't have to recalculate Irthos's skills, feats, spells, hp, class abilities, etc.[/sblock]

 

[Lord_Gareth]

[sblock=OOC]Wait, we had an extra 10,000 to spend on crafting? Huh? Snap. Ah well, I'll just leave it be.[/sblock]

 

[Gideon_Gideonson]

[sblock]Til...Didn't know the XP thing...thanks for the heads up (Not that I'm actually USING it, but still)

As for the ECL wealth, check p172 of the 3.5 DMG, second column, last sentence of the first paragraph: "Also use ECL with Table 5-1: Character Wealth by Level to determine starting wealth for a monster character."

I have no clue why they didn't put it with the wealth chart, but there you have it. WotC never really made an effort to neatly organize things for us...

Anyway, this is all up to Cog. He simply told me to check over the sheet for things that seemed out of place, so...

It's nothing personal, trust me. Ashon's got some odd template stuff going on as well, and it's entirely possible I may find myself toning him down somewhat if he turns out to strong.

Anyway, that's everything I've got.[/sblock]

 

[cog_and_taz]

[SBLOCK=OOC]Well, I'd say GG is corret on the LA stacking rules, but I understand if yyou want to remove the shadow template, it's no problem with me.

Also, yes, I am sure on the HD cap, I can't see how much trouble it would cause anyway (probably more than I could imagine, but what the heck). Those of you who didn't notice the bonus XP, you didn't miss a thing, you will simply level far before the rest of the party (essentially, you level right after something your CR happens, at my discretion, and normally after that). And yeah, getting extra money for being a xvart or less from being an ogre or whatever makes no sense to me, keep it by ECL.


Oh, and have a nice trip til.[/SBLOCK]

 

[Ink]

[sblock=ooc]Great we are starting up again!!!
Since Mem won't be in the picture much it shouldn't matter, but I will edit out the spell fire . She did that due to the March on Mem phase...

Which I expect she would do if she were in danger from magic/chaos/shadow using freinds . Ok I will post in 24hours---I see we are on on on Great to see the group posting again [/sblock]

 

[Ink]

Endeca...
they are dying...
burning...
there's fire everywhere...
everywhere...i couldn't move
i didn't do anything...
like a coward, i just ran home...
help me help them...

 

[Lord_Gareth]

The elf looks confused, conflicted at Es's words, but seizes on her first insticnt - she hugs her friend tight.

"It's okay. You did the right thing. On your own, you aren't much help against a fire. But with your friends, you're strong. It'll be okay now. But we gotta move fast or more people are gonna die. I have some friends that I can call in to help."

The elf steps back from her friend, doing her best to smile reassuringly. She holds out one mismatched glove for Es to grab onto, clearly in the mood to sprint.